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 Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters

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Xasper
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PostSubject: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 23:32

So these two units are now our flyers which hardly was any surprise. I didn't really like them in 5th ed because they often crashed too early in the game and especially the vodraven is very expensive if you wanna bring any of those nifty misiles to the battlefield.
Well they're still expensive compared to the trusty ravager, but the new flyer rules definetly made them a lot more intriguing. If your oponent wants to get them out of the sky it now requires skyfire weapons or massed snapshots, which doubtly is an effective way to distribute firepower.
Now the only questions that remains is which missiles and weapons to load them with and how they should be used on the battlefield. I don't have a lot of experience with my spikey sadistic Dark Eldar army yet, but here is some of what I'm thinking

The razorwing.
-Cheaper than the Voidraven since it already is equipped with missiles.
-Not really suitable for tank hunting, since it only has 2 lances. The ravager has 3 and is cheaper. Lancespam->Ravagers
-Monoscythe missiles instantkill T 3 models. IG Command squads looks like prime targets to me.
-Necrotoxin looks kinda "meh" to me since monoscythes already wounds T4 on 2+. Pinning is nice though and might come in very handy


The voidraven
-Voidlances are cool. Glancing landraiders on 3s is better than a railgun.
-Voidmines eats termies for breakfast... Unless they have stormshields ofc
-Implosion missiles crazy expensive but awesome for killing nobz or tyranid warriors/hiveguards etc.
-Shatterfield missile. It's a blast weapon and I usually point those towards units with more than 5 models, and those units rarely have more than 4T so is that re-roll really necessary? If you could negate a 5+ save, which you can with the monoscythe, that would be preferable.

Other things
The flickerfield is not very usefull to ravagers and raiders anymore since they both have jink now, but our flyers however could make pretty good use of it.
I think it's bad to have lances waiting in reserve and the voidraven and the jetfighter will both be starting the game there.

So what do you think of our new flyers? Smile


Last edited by Xasper on Wed Jul 04 2012, 15:18; edited 2 times in total
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PartridgeKing
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 23:49

@Xasper wrote:

-Open-topped Sad

Query?
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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 05:17

^This.

Also, keep in mind the voidmine is a small blast, so any half decent player will be keeping his squads at maximum coherency, meaning that if you hit with the damned thing, you only hit one guy, and if you scatter, the most you can hope for is 2-3. Trying to rely on your opponent having his men crammed together in a little ball is a bad idea. This is why implosion missiles are kinda meh.

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LTKage
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 07:22

I use a Razorwing with Disintegrater Cannons---It's pretty awesome when it comes out. Against MEQs or worse, its a flying death sentence. You're right about flicker fields, cause we don't have to evade. The one trade off is that you don't have an air superiority fighter if you switch out the Dark Lances for Disintegraters.

I've rolled pretty bad on my reserves with the Razorwing, but its like a build in Deus ex Machina against infantry. Good way to get an opponent off an objective.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 11:33

RWJF o.topped dafuq?!
i usually ran 2 VRB with implo missiles and one RWJF with shatterfield and disints.
Since the new move rule for flyers, you can make use of the void bomb, so that one is cool to.
Since the flyer rules, they are very survivable, so i wouldnt even bother with a ff. So to speak, if the opponent doesnt have an aircraft or AA, you can be pretty shure the plane stays in the air. Luck is a factor ofc, but hey, 10 pts IS 10 pts Smile

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DGL
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 13:56

the wonderful thing about Shatterfield missiles is the S7 thing. since you don't get -1 on the vehicle damage table vor AP - they are awesome to take out parking lots Twisted Evil
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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 15:07

The more i think about voidraven the more i prefer it without any upgrade except FF. Yes it's 2 lances, but they are str 9 so statistically it's like 3 normal lances. but with some extra perks:
1 - The bomb. Not that bad
2 - Not open topped
3 - Flyer (yes, moving the thing is a pain, but he's hard to shot down and it's our only hope against enemy fliers)
4 - Mobility, coming from reserve and fly up to 36" and fire everything is big. when i arrived from reserve i passed over a group of deepstriked termies (couldn't move, so they were clamped). Killed 4... more then the VRB points with a single bomb.

But the missiles aren't that good. Shatterfields are better than monoschyte for obv reasons (str 7 and reroll means all hits are wounds for sure). Implosion are great but small blast isn't good. Necrotoxins are a joke.
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Xasper
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 15:14

Misread that open-topped part sorry. It most certainly also seemed weird to me. I thought that I had read through their entries several times, but i must have been looking at the ravager without knowing, when I read that.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 15:15

@Ereshkigal wrote:
But the missiles aren't that good. Shatterfields are better than monoschyte for obv reasons (str 7 and reroll means all hits are wounds for sure). Implosion are great but small blast isn't good. Necrotoxins are a joke.

I'm curious as to why you feel S7 with reroll at AP- is better than S6 AP5 as it seems a bit of a wash really. One causes slightly more wounds but the other disallows more saving throws.

I'm also curious why you dismiss necrotoxin as they seem to be superior to Monoscythe, albeit costing 5 points more.

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 15:24

Well Monoscythe and Shatterfield costs the same. Against a unit with save 5+ you won't fire the missile and then waste those 2 lances, that's the venom job (or a razorwing job with dissies) and even if you do, the outcome is almost the same (more wound but saves or less wounds and no saves). If you aren't firing those s6 missiles to blobs where do you fire your missiles? MC, Vehicles, Termies and so on.
They have more than 5+ armor, so monoscythe will be the same as shatterfield, but causing less wounds.

Necrotoxins are the same as shatterfield in most regards (2+ wounds) but you can't use those against vehicles.

In my eyes you lose flexibility with necrotoxin and monoscythe, and because the all cost the same for a bomber, if i had to choose one missile it will be the shatterfield. But as i said, i prefer my VRB with only a FF.

If we were talking about razorwing, i'll take the monoscythes (but imho the VRB is better)
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Xasper
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 15:28

I think the problem with necrotoxins is that you need to be hitting a model with T5 or greater for it to relly beat the monscythe and most of the time you will be pointing those blastmarkers against T4 or less. It can't instantkill T3 models as the Monoscythe either. Pinning is handy though but I don't know if that makes up for it.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 16:44

@Adhemar: the only thing that doesnt have 5+ armor, besides us, is orks. IG i usually see them with 4+, so the ap5 doesnt realy mean anything good.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 05:16

On YTTH (yes stelek is a giant arse) there is a table of what gets AA. It seems AA is built into SM of all colours, guard, orks, necrons, tau and so on... We get nothing as usual.

I am very worried our flyers will come in, shoot then die. Rifleman dreads of all colours have AA!

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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 07:52

Since when do Dreads have AA? The only weapons in the rulebook that didn't have skyfire before but have it now are Hydras' long-barreled autocannons (which is obvious, since it's an AA tank). There is also a flak missiles in the rulebook, but it's stated that it doesn't come standard with missile launchers, so currently no army can have it.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 11:00

Wait it's just his little PDF of what is capable of AA. My bad.
Phew... that was scary!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 11:37

@Painjunky wrote:
Wait it's just his little PDF of what is capable of AA. My bad.
Phew... that was scary!

Today's lesson is of course, not to listen to anything Stelek says as the guy is basically a gigantic ego with a keyboard. Personally I'm looking forward to NOVA this year as Stelek has specifically stated that he will be bringing a competitve list and that he's had the 6e rules for several months now. There will therefore be no excuse if he fails to win the event (although I'm sure he'll come up with one!)

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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 12:10

Let's not forget that any unit holding an objective that turns out to be a Skyfire Nexus, becomes an AA unit. In normal missions that's only Dark Lances from Warriors, really, but in Big Guns Never Tire we're looking at skyfiring Ravagers! In The Scourge at... well, skyfiring Scourges!

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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 12:12

I give my Razorwing Shatterfields every time - they're not the cheapest, and they're perhaps not the most versatile, but they're useful for taking out units with multiple toughness values, or firing at a unit waiting to counter charge something you're throwing at a Daemon Prince or similar, because if it scatters it might hit him. Of course, that's fallen by the wayside now, as Daemon Princes with wings fly miles across the board, ripping open vehicles and then lashing units they started 48" away from. Which they arguably should, but I still need a rethink! It was a classic rivalry I had with a friend, Razorwing Vs Prince, just like Ravager Vs Rune Priest with another. I still like Shatterfields just for the fluff though. Dark Eldar pay more to kill with style. I like that.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 14:27

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Painjunky wrote:
Wait it's just his little PDF of what is capable of AA. My bad.
Phew... that was scary!

Today's lesson is of course, not to listen to anything Stelek says as the guy is basically a gigantic ego with a keyboard. Personally I'm looking forward to NOVA this year as Stelek has specifically stated that he will be bringing a competitve list and that he's had the 6e rules for several months now. There will therefore be no excuse if he fails to win the event (although I'm sure he'll come up with one!)

Haha! Lesson learned!

One of my many guilty little pleasures is reading stelek's excuses for why he didn't win his latest tounamant. My favourite was the one where he said he purposely took a sub-par list so he could teach his fans how to win with good tactics. This "sub-par" list included 11 razorbacks 3 units of long fangs and TWC. lol!

With flyers our only defence seems to be terrain upgraded with AA guns or a RWJF or VR geared to take out flyers. Neither of these options really appeal to me...
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 14:52

@Painjunky wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Painjunky wrote:
Wait it's just his little PDF of what is capable of AA. My bad.
Phew... that was scary!

Today's lesson is of course, not to listen to anything Stelek says as the guy is basically a gigantic ego with a keyboard. Personally I'm looking forward to NOVA this year as Stelek has specifically stated that he will be bringing a competitve list and that he's had the 6e rules for several months now. There will therefore be no excuse if he fails to win the event (although I'm sure he'll come up with one!)

Haha! Lesson learned!

One of my many guilty little pleasures is reading stelek's excuses for why he didn't win his latest tounamant. My favourite was the one where he said he purposely took a sub-par list so he could teach his fans how to win with good tactics. This "sub-par" list included 11 razorbacks 3 units of long fangs and TWC. lol!

With flyers our only defence seems to be terrain upgraded with AA guns or a RWJF or VR geared to take out flyers. Neither of these options really appeal to me...

Yes, I also enjoyed his excuses for losing.

Back on topic, you're right. Our AA options are pretty limited and I don't really fancy bringing in allies to deal with that. I'm lucky though as I'm the only one of our group has any flyers (other than a single Daemon Prince with wings)!

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 15:02

Aegis defence line is good against aircraft.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 15:08

And Skyfire Nexus objectives. Why does no one consider them?

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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 02:05

Isn't skyfire nexus random ie unreliable?
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PostSubject: Re: Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters   Voidravens and razorwing jetfighters I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 02:25

@Pain +1 for the veritas

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