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 Three Archon builds

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thelordhellion
Lord Clazaryn
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Allandrel
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theblackjackal
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Crazy_Irish
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 16:39

Well first of all. I will always play a archon. I guess it's a fluffy thing, but i just can't leave home without him. only example would be a pure Coven or Cult list. but most of the time, an Archon is my first choice.

so now that finally the BRB arrived, i we went through the rule section and i noticed the part where it says, that if you have two pistoles, you can use both. well that made my friend the SoB player happy, and i realised, that an archon was also allwoed to have two pistoles. Please Enter, the gunslinger Archon.

Archon with two Blast Pistoles.

With his good BS, you could pretty easy take one or two HP from a vehicle, or kill 2 Termis befor you charge in.
Damn it's 2 S8 DS2 shots, what is pretty nice. But as all good things it comes with a price.
we are allready at 90P.

I guess for a mandatory HQ to sit in with your blasterborn XD that would be ok. sure you have a limited range, so i guess the Archon with only one Blaster for 75P is better for mandatory.

But i also need something for CC, and there is only one option left. the Djinn Blade. with some bits and extras with which i never leave home he comes at around 150P and looks like this:

1#@150P: Archon with 2 x Blast Pistol, Djinn Blade, Shadowfield and Combat drugs

2#@160P: Archon with Power Axe, Blaster, Djinn Blade, Shadowfield, Combat drugs, Soul Trap

3#@75P: Archon with Blaster

So, the 3# is not new, but what do you think of them? What are you going to equippt your archon?

sláinte

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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 16:47

The archon build I intend to use is:
Archon w/ Power Lance, Blast Pistol (now that I'll actually fire it,) Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, and a PGL, for 155 points. Basically there to support incubi in their MEQ-killing.

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(11/5/2013: A few things have been added to the Kabal's fluff, most notably shifting their base of operations into the Webway, sort of, and adding an alliance with the Alpha Legion, or at least a few heads of the hydra.)
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 16:54

I will just take my Archon as I always have, Shadowfield, Blaster, Combat Drugs, Huskblade, PGL. He is expensive for what he does, but I like him. Even though he won't be my Deathwing slayer anymore I will still find a use for him.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 18:20

I think I may try out #1... I like the idea of a gunslinging archon... XD

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touns
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 03 2012, 22:53

I read this and did agree that a power axe would be cool for Arcon. But when I mentioned this to my MEQ friends they mentioned "unwieldy", which is a reduced Initiative step to 1.

I don't see this as being a benefit as it makes the Arcon go the same time as powerfists which can out right kill him. What do you guys think?
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steev
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 03:09

your friends are wrong. power axe gives -1int, so you will syill strike at int 6.

I also like the thought of a gunslinger, but only having 6 range I just dont think the blast pistols would see much action.
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 03:20

Unwieldy - A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative step 1, unless it is a monstrous creature or walker.

Power fists, chain fists, and axes all have the unwieldy rule.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 05:20

Do Halberds count as axes?
Cause our Succubi has nice Halberd.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 05:39

yes they do

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steev
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 10:14

@Ruke wrote:
Unwieldy - A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative step 1, unless it is a monstrous creature or walker.

Power fists, chain fists, and axes all have the unwieldy rule.

nope you are wrong. May book says.... oh hang on a minute, Unweildy. Shocked where did I get the -1 from?!
I stand corrected Very Happy
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 11:03

Since the new rules don't make you lose extra attacks from having different special ccws, unless the weapon rules specifically mention it, like with fists, you can combine power axe with a 5 point venom blade. Against 2+ save you can drop to i1 and rely on the shadowfield to keep you alive long enough to strike (it helps that most 2+ models will also be rocking i1 weapons), and against other targets you can hit with you own initiative and wound them on 3+. Costs 120 points with drugs and shadowfield, so it isn't even that pricey.

Damn, I need to buy a new Archon and a new Succubus for that halbed (or rip an arm off my converted Sslyth/Klaivex who is currently using my halberd).

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 11:24

@Nomic wrote:
Since the new rules don't make you lose extra attacks from having different special ccws, unless the weapon rules specifically mention it, like with fists, you can combine power axe with a 5 point venom blade. Against 2+ save you can drop to i1 and rely on the shadowfield to keep you alive long enough to strike (it helps that most 2+ models will also be rocking i1 weapons), and against other targets you can hit with you own initiative and wound them on 3+. Costs 120 points with drugs and shadowfield, so it isn't even that pricey.

Damn, I need to buy a new Archon and a new Succubus for that halbed (or rip an arm off my converted Sslyth/Klaivex who is currently using my halberd).

Could you not use 2 power weapons and have one as an axe and the other as a sword? That way you have AP3 on your own initiative or AP2 on initiative 1. Slightly more expensive but I'm not sure if the venom blade wounding on 2+ with armour saves is any better than the power sword wounding on 5+ with no armour. Against MEQ it works out slightly in favour of the power weapon (0.33 unsaved wounds per attack vs 0.27).

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 04 2012, 13:30

Not sure if paying 3 times the amount for 0.06 wounds per attack is really worth it, especially when you can just switch to the axe for when you really need to ignore armour.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 15:36

Wouldn't an agoniser and power axe be a better choice than a power axe and power sword? or Huskblade and power axe?

Although I'm liking the two blast pistols idea, just not how many points to sink into him with 150 points you could buy the duke and get some deep strike sucker punches
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 18:19

But you gotta keep in mind that you can only deep strike 1/2 your units now, unless youre muhreens, since those guys dont seem to care about rules and what have you... XD

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 20:25

It's bad, but my Incubi w/ Tooled Archon wouldn't make their work* in 6ed. So, i'd rather throw them off in "competetive" play.

*Their usual task was eliminating elite units, or something which cannot be drawn in splinter fire (2+/fnp, or even 3+/fnp in numbers). Now they cannot penetrate 2+, and they do not ignore FnP.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 20:37

Hijalo, please, stop whining, this is not some well known russion forum, this is decent forum.
I have enough of this read back there, contribute something or just dont.

I believe you can.


Last edited by Azdrubael on Fri Jul 06 2012, 05:08; edited 1 time in total
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 05 2012, 21:22

Azdrubael, I understand full well your irritation with negativity, due to recent weeks, but please do not speak badly about any other forum, no matter your opinion. Thanks - Cavash.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 05:07

Noted.
Still its better to adress things like this at the beginning.
They tend to flood the space.
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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 17:54

@Ruke wrote:
But you gotta keep in mind that you can only deep strike 1/2 your units now, unless youre muhreens, since those guys dont seem to care about rules and what have you... XD

So a friend of mine and I have been looking for the rule that would allow marines to DS more than 1/2 the army, but haven't been able to find it (we don't see marines out here very often). Might you be able to point me in the general direction?
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Sendreavus
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 19:01

@Roc wrote:
@Ruke wrote:
But you gotta keep in mind that you can only deep strike 1/2 your units now, unless youre muhreens, since those guys dont seem to care about rules and what have you... XD

So a friend of mine and I have been looking for the rule that would allow marines to DS more than 1/2 the army, but haven't been able to find it (we don't see marines out here very often). Might you be able to point me in the general direction?

I think he means drop pods since they don't count in the reserves limitation since they have to reserve, same with flyers.
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 19:02

Drop pods (and Chaos Daemons, for the matter) have a special rule where they must be kept in reserve and enter via deep strike. So if you have more than 50% of your army in drop pods, you can (and indeed must) place more than 50% in reserves.

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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 19:15

Great, thanks.

That's very interesting actually. Like I said, we don't see marines at the LGS that often, so we don't see drop-pod lists.

Not to take this off topic, but.... (maybe this should be moved elsewhere?)

However, one of the rulings we had regarding flying transports is very interesting. The ruling was that the transports and the units counted separately, due to the rule for defining a unit. So for a sliscus army, a squad in a raider counted as two of your units. As such, for flyer transports, the fliers themselves were not taken into consideration for defining half units, because the unit itself could deploy normally, and one could CHOOSE to deploy them in the flying transport, in reserve (same for dedicated and regular transports).

As such, RAW, I would assume a full drop-pod army would either be less than viable, or end up with a few empty, gun-only pods.

Unless there is another rule I'm missing? Or the LGS has ruled on what constitutes a unit incorrectly (though looking at the rules, I don't think so)? Or perhaps the LGS ruled incorrectly on what constitutes must start in reserves...?
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 19:54

I think the difference is that a Drop Pod is a dedicated transport, while a flyer transport like the Valkyrie or the Storm Raven isn't (except in Elysian lists). I would argue that a unit may always deploy with its transport as it is allowed or required to do. While it's true that you could always deploy the two separately, and send in the drop pod empty, I'd think that a unit with a dedicated transport that must start in reserve would be exempted from the restriction.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that if you have no models left on the table at the end of any game turn, you automatically lose.

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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Three Archon builds   Three Archon builds I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 21:46

While, personally, I may tend to agree with your conclusion, I am unsure of the argument.

Dedicated transports only put restrictions on the vehicle. The only differences between a DT and a T is that the DT (a) doesnt count against force org and (b) a DT can only take the squad it was purchased with initially. There is no obligation on the units end, only the vehicles. As such, I don't see how a transport being a DT or a T would make a difference for these purposes (especially considering the rule that states that multiple 'units' purchased under the same force org. slot are deployed separately-- the self-same rule that allows a squad with a DT to deploy it empty halfway across the board).

As such, it would have to be either (a) squads embarked on T and DT that must start in reserve don't count towards the limit, or (b) squads embarked on T and DT that must start in reserve do count towards the limit.

Even if I think the case is (a), I can find no rule to support that argument (hence the loss of the ruling at the LGS).
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