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Kesharq
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PostSubject: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 13:09

Is this too cheesy or bending the rules?

1. Archons are able to buy power weapons (our codex)
2. We have to look at the power weapon we wield to decide, what kind of AP it has (rulebook)
3. I glue a kind of power axe to my Archons Hand

Q: Do I get to use the Power axe rules for that? Of course I trade my high I for a weapon that is able to kill Terminators/equipped NecronLords etc. - but my shadowfield should save me from harm.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 14:26

Perfectly according to the rules. There is a reason they FAQd any army that had an entry for "power sword" to read "power weapon". There are now several types of power weapon that all cost the same but have different stats. So you can have Archon with punsher glaives (ie. power halberds/axes) again. I wonder if that weapon that comes with the Succubus model counts as a spear or a halberd...

You can also now give him 2 special ccws without losing an attack (unless one of those weapons is a powerfist/hammer or lightning claw), so you can pair the axe with a weapon that has better initiative and use that for hitting units that have lower armour.

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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 14:39

What Nomic said: there are now a variety of different power weapons with different stats but the same points cost (because, e.g., the axe gives better S/AP but at the cost of I).

I don't have the book yet. Is it the case that anyone allowed a 'power weapon' in their codex can take whatever type of power weapon they like (except fist, presumably)?
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 15:04

@Ben_S wrote:
I don't have the book yet. Is it the case that anyone allowed a 'power weapon' in their codex can take whatever type of power weapon they like (except fist, presumably)?

the german BRB says:
Different kinds of power weapons:
Powerweapons exist in many different kinds and sizes, but GW will sort them into 4 general groups: power swords, power axes, power maces, power spears.

If a power weapon is mentioned as equipment for a model but there are no specific rules for it, take a look at the model to verify the kind of power weapon: if it is a Sword or a dagger, it's a power sword, Axe or Halberd become power axes, a staff or a mace become a power mace, spear or lance become a power spear.

so by building your Archon, keep the rule of his weapon in mind...


side note: didn't all the old CSM-Termis come with a mace as a power weapon? Sadly just AP4 for them...



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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 15:05

If a "power weapon" can be an axe, does that mean a huskblade, djinn blade, agonizer, electrocorosive whip etc can be as well?

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Kesharq
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 15:21

if a powerweapons has its own rules, then it counts as a "unusual" power weapon with AP3

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 15:22

Sadly no, as the BRB states that special power weapons (ie. any that has rules besides "power weapon") will, unless othervise stated, have ap3. To be honest I think they should've at the very leats made power whips a separate weapon category, and made agonizer one of them. Even with ap3 it would've been nice if it would reroll hits and wounds like razorflails.

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 22:34

Does anyone else feel like this was done to sorta match the feel of using different power weapons in the Space Marine video game? I just got the feeling of deja vu thinking 'the sword's faster, the axe is still fast and has a lot of bite and the maul is a two hit kill if I don't get stunned' .

The conversion for some of these models on the tabletop will be a pain though. As one of the owners of 10 metal chaos terminators I'm groaning at the prospect of having to saw my models' weapons off, maybe magnetize the hands so I don't have to do it again, and buying weapon sprues to replace them.

On the positive side, this means the trueborn conversion kits everyone has been wishing for will have to come out. I mean, they wouldn't force us to use Imperial axes and maces for too long, would they?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 22:54

@Zaid wrote:
The conversion for some of these models on the tabletop will be a pain though. As one of the owners of 10 metal chaos terminators I'm groaning at the prospect of having to saw my models' weapons off, maybe magnetize the hands so I don't have to do it again, and buying weapon sprues to replace them.

I have absolutely zero intention of remodelling any of my models to adhere to this latest piece of crap from GW. I will explain to my opponent that any power weapons are just that, power weapons. If he doesn't like that - tough. He can live with it or find someone else to play.

Quote :
On the positive side, this means the trueborn conversion kits everyone has been wishing for will have to come out. I mean, they wouldn't force us to use Imperial axes and maces for too long, would they?

You're having a laugh, right? This is the company that took several years to release many of the most important models from Space Wolves and Tyranids. I very much doubt we will ever get a trueborn conversion kit.

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 00:15

Adhemar nails it; theres no way GW will release a kit like that. "Look at the model to determine what type of power weapon it is armed with is" utter horse crud - what if the weapon is very unique looking but isn't a huskblade or agoniser etc?

I'm with Ad on this one - as long as my models clearly have a power weapon of some form then I'll damned well play with them as whatever type I like. Theres no way I'm going round cutting and repinning for the sake of this rule. How utterly ridiculous.

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 00:29

Hmmmm.......
Can lose the pistol to have 2 different power weapons and therefore 2 different stat lines to choose from. Am I right in saying you still get the +1 attack as well. huskblade and power axe would at least give you the choice between insta-gib and negating armour.
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 05:46

different power weapons? ahahahahaha GW have really done it this time......no dark eldar would use a clumsy axe or maul! we want more bite, we alter our swords to do so! LIVE WITH IT!

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 06:06

I guess some of you have not been playing as long as me... Power weapons used to be broken up like this with very similar stat mods... It's nothing new

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 06:54

Meh, I've been playing Mordhiem a lot lately so this really doesn't bug me as much as it does some. It's just another part of the game now. Some people will use it to make sweet looking models, some people will game the hell out of it, just like every other section of the rulebook.
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 08:02

Well i will not go around Chiping weapons from models. I'll just build new ones XD

I'll use the helbard from the Succubus model, as a power axe, so no harm done there.

but i like it that they changed that you can now get the +1A from to different special weapons. now my archon can have a Blaster, and two oder special weapons. thats how a DE should be equippted. well especially a piratical one XD

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 09:58

@Massaen wrote:
I guess some of you have not been playing as long as me... Power weapons used to be broken up like this with very similar stat mods... It's nothing new

Been playing since 40k was released, which is probably why I'm so sick of these pointless changes. I remember the pain I felt in removing the power swords and plasma pistols from my BA jump marines to replace them with BP/Chainsword. I have no intention of going through all that again.

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 10:25

Changes to optimal weapons options are quite common between editions, presumably because it sells more models that way. At least they didn't just make previous weapons options illegal here. If I still played Lizardmen (WHFB) then I'd be annoyed at the number of Skinks I had with shortbows, which aren't allowed any more. And some units were completely removed from the Undead army.

Having started 40k in 2nd, swords, axes, etc had different profiles there. (Mind you, so did, e.g, chainswords). Perhaps for those that don't want to be restricted ambiguous weapons are a partial solution, e.g. a halberd-type thing that could be an axe or spear.

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
now my archon can have a Blaster, and two oder special weapons. thats how a DE should be equippted. well especially a piratical one XD

True, but you're limited by the fact that some of the options replace his original pistol/CCW. You can't, therefore, have Blaster, Power Sword, and Power Axe. You can have Blaster, Power Axe, and Djin Blade.

@Briefspite wrote:
If a "power weapon" can be an axe, does that mean a huskblade, djinn blade, agonizer, electrocorosive whip etc can be as well?

As far as I'm aware, your Djin Blade could be an axe, if that's what the model happened to have, but whatever form it takes it's a special power weapon and thus has that profile (AP3), rather than the usual one for a sword, axe, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 11:52

What about an agonizer ? It's written in the codec that it becomes whatever weapon, can be a sword, a mace, etc ...
So is it just a "special weapon" with AP3 ? Now I can't beat termis that easily with the archon.l
I wanna have a Klaivex's 2H Weapon for the AP 2 :'((
Fortunately, if he doesn't have to sprint before the assault, he has a blaster pistol, but with the new awfully assault/sprint rules, it makes it so random that I think I'll sprint a lot more ....

What power weapons are AP2 atm ?
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 12:07

@Fruz wrote:
What about an agonizer ? It's written in the codec that it becomes whatever weapon, can be a sword, a mace, etc ...
So is it just a "special weapon" with AP3 ? Now I can't beat termis that easily with the archon.l
I wanna have a Klaivex's 2H Weapon for the AP 2 :'((
Fortunately, if he doesn't have to sprint before the assault, he has a blaster pistol, but with the new awfully assault/sprint rules, it makes it so random that I think I'll sprint a lot more ....

What power weapons are AP2 atm ?

The agoniser is a unusuall power weapon so it is AP3, it does not matter what it looks like.

to have the Demi-Klaivar would be pretty neat for an archon and pretty damn good XD

but i think you have mixed some things up. the ability to sprint, is just the reroll of the charge. what you where thinking about is run. but if you run, you are not allowed to assault anymore, so i would still shoot.

by the way. could we not use an Archon at the front, to soak up the wounds from snap shot, and thus let wyches assault unharmed?

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 12:17

Yeah my bad, completely forgot it wasnt possible to sprint + charge ><
but anyway, having something so random is just so threatening for CC units, espacially for wyches imho, chargin with shooting before is going to be very dangerous.
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 19:32

I'm thinking about replacing the agonizer on my hekatrix with a power lance and PGL. It looks like the lance will be just as good as the agonizer on the charge against MEQ and it also benifits from furious charge and grave lotus (with lucky roles S6 on the charge). If I do replace it I'll have points for PGL to give the unit stealth while charging without having to sacrifice from somewhere else on the list. Is this a good idea on should i just stick with the agonizer?
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 19:34

This means that Powershovel is now perfectly legal! Power Axe and Power Maul in one! Glorious Eldar technology reigns supreme!

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 20:07

@Siticus the Ancient wrote:
This means that Powershovel is now perfectly legal! Power Axe and Power Maul in one! Glorious Eldar technology reigns supreme!

The long and glorious history of the entrenching tool reaches out into the grim darkness of the far future!
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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 20:16

O.O! All my archons shall wield the mighty powershovel!

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PostSubject: Re: Powerweapons   Powerweapons I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 02 2012, 20:47

Mine to, they have a secret love for tending to the forget-me-knot int the garden you know...

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