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 What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th

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Ruke
Wych
Ruke

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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 09:53

I'll repost this for your benefit:

Mixed Saves: If the unit contains several different saving throws... first allocate wounds from the wound pool to the enemy model closest to the firing unit, the model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce it wounds by 1, if it is reduced to 0 wounds, remove it as a casualty. Continue allocating wounds to the closest model, taking saves and removing casualties until the wound pool is empty, or all models in the unit have been removed as causalties.

So yes, if your archon is out front, he can absorb all the fire.

It's sad that our stupid high weapons skill doesnt count for anything at all again.

Now, as for infiltrate, mandrakes, and haemuns... It does indeed say "In a unit that has at least one model with this special rule..." and it with IC's it gives the example of stubborn, which is in fact worded the same way, so you could attach any of the IC's to them, including farseers and all kinds of fun. Mandrakes are back in play!

Edit:

The following rules are all worded "In a unit that has at least one model with this special rule..." and thus will confer a squads abilities on an IC and an ICs abilities on a squad..."

Acute Senses
Adamantium Will
ATSKNF
Counter Attack
Crusader
Fearless
Hit and Run
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
Night Vision
Preferred Enemy
Scout
Shrouded
Skilled Rider
Slow and Purposeful
Split Fire
Stealth
Stubborn
Tank Hunters
Zealot
----------------

On the upside, if you toss a hamun in with a group of allies, that group gains night vision!

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:05

I'm starting to ponder whether a slightly more equipped unit of deckchair Wracks may be worth it. Rather than 3 how about 5 with a liquifier and Acothyst with hexrifle. The hexrifle just got awesome at instant deathing characters and using a liquifier on overwatch adds another defensive capability.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:05

Okay, I'm getting mixed messages about the infiltrate thing. My bad if I got it wrong. Will have to wait for the rulebook to read it all myself. Even so, without assault from WWP I'm not sure I even see the point of it, especially as it's not exactly a cheap piece of kit.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:09

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Really unsure what your army consists of as Harpies are Tyranids, Vipers are Eldar and Fighter/Bombers are Orks. I haven't got a clue what Hyemshin are!
XD i'm sorry, my german names got me confused. Harpien=Scourges, Schattenviper = Venoms, well fighter is short for Razorwing JetFighter and i quess what bomber i meant... Oh and Hyemshin is the german name for Reaver jetbikes.


@Count Adhemar wrote:

If by "wait a moment until it's their time to shine" you mean "stand around like lemons getting obliterated by the entire enemy army" then sure, our assault units are still golden.
With the new reserve rules(Turn2 and 3 on 3+ Turn4 autom.) and with the ability to reroll? with a com station, most of our army will come in at the same time. so no, there will be loads of other targets. Dark Eldar tend to excel if they bully a part of the ememy with more they can handle. If you manage to pull that of, the a WWP is a good tool for that.


@Count Adhemar wrote:
In any event, WWP is now effectively useless unless FAQ'd so that you can assault out of it. There's also the issue that first turn deployment of the portal itself is now much harder as you cannot get as far across the board due to changes in rules for disembarking from vehicles.

well there are those that say, some rules may be confered to the unit and infiltration seems to be part of that list, but as soon as i have my rulebook i'll check for myself. Oh i see Ruke has reposted it, thanks.


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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:14

Ah, but when you think about the Allies rules, it becomes awesome. Part of the problem I have with Eldar is that wraithguard only have 12" shooting, but pop those guys out of a WWP that you can put ANYWHERE thanks to the mandrakes, and you can be wrecking vehicles even faster than wyches. Then you get wraithlords coming through with dual flamers, a wraithsword and a starcannon, and byebye vehicles and termies, and the best part of that is bolters and marine CCW cant hurt them. I don't see me using WWP for DE forces anymore, but ELDAR forces coming out of it will be extremely nasty.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:30

@Ruke wrote:
, but ELDAR forces coming out of it will be extremely nasty.
if this is possible. Best buddys can't get into their BB Vehicles....

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 10:41

@Ruke wrote:
Ah, but when you think about the Allies rules, it becomes awesome. Part of the problem I have with Eldar is that wraithguard only have 12" shooting, but pop those guys out of a WWP that you can put ANYWHERE thanks to the mandrakes, and you can be wrecking vehicles even faster than wyches. Then you get wraithlords coming through with dual flamers, a wraithsword and a starcannon, and byebye vehicles and termies, and the best part of that is bolters and marine CCW cant hurt them. I don't see me using WWP for DE forces anymore, but ELDAR forces coming out of it will be extremely nasty.

That's all well and good but I want to play a Dark Eldar army. If I just want to use a WWP to deliver Eldar units then I might as well play Eldar and just take a Haem, Mandrakes and a troop unit as allies.

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What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 YhBv3Wk
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Plague
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 12:49

So much for allies from a WWP. This is from the 6th ed FAQ

Q:Can units from allied attachment use a webway portal to enter play from reserve?

A: No

Wow, why does GW hate the WWP so much? It's one of the more unique items to our codex and they beat the hell out of it with the nerf bat.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 13:56

May i comment this on my own language?

Please do not swear on our forums, even in another language.


if i even would dare try to translate it, i'll be banned for sure, if someone curious he can try to it by himself...
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Beriadan
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 14:17

Hijallo, you're reading my mind.
I was on my way making a portal roster, converting khymeras and painting talos, but the 6th edition comes and just kills it. Where was Phil Kelly when those rules for reserves were written?.. Damn you, GW!
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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 14:29

Looks like the best build will be the 'back to square 1" Venom and lance spam then.

Cover and FNP has been nerfed so splinter cannons are cool vs ALL non mechanised units
Lance glancing death takes care of the terminators and the transports
MSU gets around the vulnerability of our vehicles and the psychic buffs/nerfs that we have no way of stopping without a farseer.

Raider rushing is dead i think.
AP10 can be glanced by S4+ RF weaopons can now shoot much further.
Assault distance has been reduced.
If you are immobilised after going fast in this or the previous turn the vehicle is destroyed

Our assult units are OK I suppose but the 2 primary delivery systems, webway and raider rushing have been removed.

It a real shame that they diddnt put a bit more thought into the FAQ's.


Last edited by Venkh on Sat Jun 30 2012, 14:33; edited 1 time in total
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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 14:30

I'm sure Kelly was out, but Ward sitted at the head of council. Just look at Necrons - they should be banned on tournaments. They are even more stronger then GK was in 5th.
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 14:47

@Hijallo wrote:
I'm sure Kelly was out, but Ward sitted at the head of council. Just look at Necrons - they should be banned on tournaments. They are even more stronger then GK was in 5th.

wasn't kelly somewhere in russia doing a music video for some russion folk band? XD

But it seems that i have found my mission for 6th edition... make DE CC viable, lets check everything again, let nothing untried, and if it doesn't work, just try again. boy i'm sorry, i guess my irish spirit came out there ;-)

But i realy do not think that the raider as a transportsystem for CC units has failed. remember it's only 3" worse than befor.

my vow still stands. my first kill will be some terminators in CC!

good that my friend has a nearly all termi list XD

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 15:16

Raiders now explode at Str4, and our FnP get worse. Only Incubi can leave raider's crater non-crippled, but they are total "meh" now.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 15:16

Drazhar, Lelith and Duke seem to be our only HQ units that can hurt 2+ armour in cc (unless you model your Archon with a power axe or halberd. He now has s4 and ap2, but strikes at i1). Our FAQ seemed very poor and incomplete compared to, say, the Necorn one which actually goes to list ap values for most of their special weapons (we just got Incubi weapons and the Decrapitator of all things). Lelith would actually be really good in challenges, as she can focus all of her ridiculous number of attacks against the enemy squad leader. Sure, she wounds on 5+, but she has tons of attacks. Drazhar is also very powerful, altough lacks grenades. We still don't have anything that can really deal with Termiantors (since none of those characters can really wipe out whole squads of them by themselves), and would strugle against characters with powerfists and 3++ (since they can instakill us, except Drazhar who only gets a 5+ fnp against them), although we do have the advantage of hitting first with many attacks, having high ws and, in case of Lelith, reducing their attacks.

Allying with Eldrad seems the way to go, as in addition to awesome psychic ownage he's actually better in combat than most supposed cc monsters (he ignores all armour saves, for one thing). The Eldar FAQ also included a change they seemed to have forgotten from ours, namely how Harlequin Shadowseers work. Veil of tears now gives them stealth and shrouded, ie. 2+ to cover save instead of the old pseudo-night fight. I think this might be a buff. Harlequins also have rending, altough I wouldn't really rely on it to kill Terminators.

Overall, shooting definetly seems like the way to go. Scourges and Reavers are very good now, our skimmers thay about the same, Voidraven and Razorwing are now proper fliers, and rapid fire got buffed a bit (lances too, sort of). I'm not really fond of running a list with absolutely no cc potential (there are still some situations where you want to charge enemies, just not Terminators), so I'll try if I could fit some close combat unit in. Maybe a small Incubi unit with a Klaivex?

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Bugs_N_Orks
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 16:38

@Ruke wrote:

The following rules are all worded "In a unit that has at least one model with this special rule..." and thus will confer a squads abilities on an IC and an ICs abilities on a squad..."

Acute Senses
Adamantium Will
ATSKNF
Counter Attack
Crusader
Fearless
Hit and Run
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
Night Vision
Preferred Enemy
Scout
Shrouded
Skilled Rider
Slow and Purposeful
Split Fire
Stealth
Stubborn
Tank Hunters
Zealot

Is this true? That'll make for some pretty interesting combo's. Big beast pack with Baron and Feugan is now Fearless with Tank Hunters, Stealth and Hit and Run? 580 points but I'd give it whirl. Alternatively trade Feugan for Farseer with Fortune and Doom (and runes) for a pretty tough unit to move with all those re-rollable 4++s.

How do beasts work in the new rules?
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Grumpy Kwi
Nightmare Doll on the Loose
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 16:49

Right now there seems to be a huge swing towards starting on the board and shooting.

Flyers look golden.
Truborn in venoms look almost natural for this edition.
Warriors in gunboats got a boost.
Wyches with haemys is barely acceptable.
Scourges with haywire blasters (or even heatlances)
Hellions have to start on the board and hide but they got a boost too.
Talos has a lot of changes that look positive - but again, the portal rules really hurt them the most.

I thought Phil Kelly was going to make Kheradruahk and Court of the Archon worthwhile but no word on them.

No change on the Vect dias - thought for sure they would at least give him one change.

***********************************************************************************************************

Is the character thing that the Decapitator had a problem with (characters not able to join squads) still in effect?

Do you still have to be an IC to join a squad?

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"is that it ?" ....
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 16:55

What's up with this ''we can't kill termies in cc''? scratch Well, they are meant to be really hard and who thought termies were an easy prey in 5th? If you really want to go cc with the metal cans just drive your talosi up there and make those (rerollable) D6+2 S7( 8 ) AP2 attacks chew them up. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
Or you just do as any tiny elf would do, blast them from afar. cheers A dissie ravager would be good. Moving 12 inch then blast em with 9 S5 AP2 shoots whith full BS since you have the new Aerial Assult rule (see FAQ)

And regarding Incubi, well you can't kill termies with them. Fair enough. They will chew MEQ as before, and the Klaivex is a good IC/Sergant killer. If those happen to be in the enemy squad you are charging.

I for one is curious about the new mandrakes. Can't wait to try out 10 with a heamy armed with a hex rifle and a venom blade, maybe I will take an ancient. Snipe those dangerous peeps and blast the enemy with some baleblasts and then charge in and kill the survivors. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

By the way, scourges. Have they gotten any other use than haywire carriers? Haywire blaster is really good hands down, just curious since they are awsome. Very Happy


Last edited by NiteOwl on Sat Jun 30 2012, 17:24; edited 2 times in total
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:00

Fortune only works on Eldar units tho, so it wouldn't affect Dark Eldar, unless they FAQ it to affect allied units as well. Doom would work tho, since it affects enemies.

And yes, as far as I checked, all those rules are conferred to any unit with at least one model with the rule.

Another interesting thing I noticed: Harlequins have 4+ coversave when in the open, and 2+ one when in any terrain (Shadowseer gives them stealth and shrouded, which stack for a total of 3+ to any cover saves). Still only 5++ in melee tho, altough with Rending, high ws and hit and run, they migth actually be our best cc unit (charge in, kill some stuff and hope their high ws reduces the hits they take, then hit and run and leave the enemy to be shot at).

Also, most of the new psychci powers require los and can't be cast out of a vehicle (the rulebook specifies that only witchfires, ie. direct psychic shooting attacks, can be used out of a vehicle), so if we want to use an allied Farseer, we'll have to have him sit outside a vehicle (or move 6'', jump out, use a power), necessiating a unit that can take some damage. With this in mind, I propose the Kabalite Deathblob: 20 Warriors with Eldrad. 20 Warriors in ruins/rubble (4+ cover save) is quite hard to remove with shooting (especially as there are ways to grant them stealth or invulnerable saves with psychci powers or warlord traits), keeping Eldrad safe in the center and free to throw out psychic buffs and debuffs. And since Eldrad gets 4 rolls on the psychic power table, you have a good chanse of getting a nice power called Foreboding. It gives the unit the psyker is in counter charge, and lets them overwatch with their own bs. If you also have Duke in your army, the Kabalite Deathblob with Foreboding will on average wipe out half of a 10man Marine Squad or a 5man Termie squad that charges them before any blows are struck, and the 20 counter-charging warriors (and Eldrad, who wounds everything on 2+ and ignores armour) will hopefully kill a few in melee as well.

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:13

Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:16

Tiresias wrote:
Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

Wychblades? What's the stats?
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:18

@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

Wychblades? What's the stats?

'Fleshbane' and 'armour bane', both better at killing either vehicles or infantry, strength being that of the model...

But I'd really like an answer, since if I would cut up my first hydra gauntlet leading wych again, that would mean the third time I cut her up and switched her back and forward... Shocked

Since I am slowly deciding to aim at 'numbers x speed', I just might, if only to keep it easier and cheaper...
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:21

Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

Wychblades? What's the stats?

'Fleshbane' and 'armour bane', both better at killing either vehicles or infantry, strength being that of the model...


Then what does Fleshbane and armourbane do? Re-rolls or?
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:30

@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

Wychblades? What's the stats?

'Fleshbane' and 'armour bane', both better at killing either vehicles or infantry, strength being that of the model...


Then what does Fleshbane and armourbane do? Re-rolls or?

- Armourbane, page 33, 2D6 armour penetration in melee
- Flesbane, page 35, always wound in melee on 2+, no effect against vehicles

But this might be an Eldar toy... If so, ignore what I said...
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NiteOwl
Hellion
NiteOwl

Posts : 96
Join date : 2011-10-18

What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:35

Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
Question: reading the new rulebook I gather that all wyches are armed with wychblades? Pretty good weapons now. But what about agonizers or hydra gauntlets? I cannot find them, not even in the FAQ. Any ideas?

Wychblades? What's the stats?

'Fleshbane' and 'armour bane', both better at killing either vehicles or infantry, strength being that of the model...


Then what does Fleshbane and armourbane do? Re-rolls or?

- Armourbane, page 33, 2D6 armour penetration in melee
- Flesbane, page 35, always wound in melee on 2+, no effect against vehicles

No clear sight on other wych weapons though... And do wyches automatically have these sweet toys???

How does these work? Do you chose wich one to use at the start of the Fight sub-phase?

If every wych comes armed this way then I for one would be glad. I mean 2+ to wound is very good. Twisted Evil And 2 D6 armour penetration is very very good. Haywire grenades and armourbane....wyches are made for tank killing! cheers
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What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 4 I_icon_minitime

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