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 What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:36

I think I made a mistake... Anyway I cannot find out how wyches are armed using the rulebook...

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TristanAquaeusRodentbane
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:42

Wyches standard weaponry didn't change, it's still a Splinter Pistol/CCW. the wichblades you're refering too are eldar warlock and farseer weapons.

Cheers
-Rodentbane
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:46

@TristanAquaeusRodentbane wrote:
Wyches standard weaponry didn't change, it's still a Splinter Pistol/CCW. the wichblades you're refering too are eldar warlock and farseer weapons.

Cheers
-Rodentbane

Yeah I am sorry, I think it is just a basic CCW with the hydra's adding the D6 in assault.

Those pretty cool witchblades seem indeed Eldar.

And about Agonizers, they are power swords AP3 with the special rules standard as in the book?

However it wouldn't have been a bad idea to just add them to the armoury at the end of the book... Would save on confusion.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 17:47

@TristanAquaeusRodentbane wrote:
Wyches standard weaponry didn't change, it's still a Splinter Pistol/CCW. the wichblades you're refering too are eldar warlock and farseer weapons.

Cheers
-Rodentbane

Man, that was dissapointing No I got so damm excited there Sad

Fair and square, that would have bin a bit OP Razz

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 18:13

@NiteOwl wrote:
@TristanAquaeusRodentbane wrote:
Wyches standard weaponry didn't change, it's still a Splinter Pistol/CCW. the wichblades you're refering too are eldar warlock and farseer weapons.

Cheers
-Rodentbane

Man, that was dissapointing No I got so damm excited there Sad

Fair and square, that would have bin a bit OP Razz

Guess you know what to arm your allied renegade warseer with Wink
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Bugs_N_Orks
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 18:18

@NiteOwl wrote:

How does these work? Do you chose wich one to use at the start of the Fight sub-phase?

If every wych comes armed this way then I for one would be glad. I mean 2+ to wound is very good. Twisted Evil And 2 D6 armour penetration is very very good. Haywire grenades and armourbane....wyches are made for tank killing! cheers

These are almost certainly not standard armament for wyches, to me they sound like the new form of Eldar Witchblades that farseers/warlocks/Yriel uses
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 18:31

Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
@TristanAquaeusRodentbane wrote:
Wyches standard weaponry didn't change, it's still a Splinter Pistol/CCW. the wichblades you're refering too are eldar warlock and farseer weapons.

Cheers
-Rodentbane

Man, that was dissapointing No I got so damm excited there Sad

Fair and square, that would have bin a bit OP Razz

Guess you know what to arm your allied renegade warseer with Wink

If I take a farseer it will definitely take one of those witchblades alien
But I won't buy any eldar untill their new codex and new models have come. Because those models will be pretty good looking afro
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 18:39

@NiteOwl wrote:
If I take a farseer it will definitely take one of those witchblades alien
But I won't buy any eldar untill their new codex and new models have come. Because those models will be pretty good looking afro

Any idea on whén? Seems their codex is pretty old.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 19:15

Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
If I take a farseer it will definitely take one of those witchblades alien
But I won't buy any eldar untill their new codex and new models have come. Because those models will be pretty good looking afro

Any idea on whén? Seems their codex is pretty old.

Nope, but I think pretty soon. Maybe in a year or so Basketball . It will be sooner than later^^
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 19:20

In case anyone is still in doubt, witch blades are for Eldar only, they have ALWAYS been an Eldar weapon, Farseers and Warlocks have them, and they have had these abilities since 4th (or 3rd? I forget, though their vehicle killing ability got dropped down a little bit). Note the spelling. WITCH blades. Not wych, WITCH. Wyches have their standard CCWs.


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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 19:22

@NiteOwl wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
@NiteOwl wrote:
If I take a farseer it will definitely take one of those witchblades alien
But I won't buy any eldar untill their new codex and new models have come. Because those models will be pretty good looking afro

Any idea on whén? Seems their codex is pretty old.

Nope, but I think pretty soon. Maybe in a year or so Basketball . It will be sooner than later^^

OK. Since I underscore a lot of comments others have posted, I will totally need to rebalance what I want to put down. Luckily my DE are limited at this pôint to 10 wyches and 3 reavers Smile Some Corrupt Eldar Corsairs might do the trick. Question is: which ones...

In the meantime I guess I will be painting some more IG...
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 19:30

Don't throw Eldar under the bus because they have an old book. Farseers are still incredibly good, and Dire Avengers have their new(ish) plastic kit. A farseer with Runes of Warding forces all other psykers to test on a 3d6, with anything over 12 causing perils, and Doom is still a great psychic power to have (allows you to select one enemy unit within 24', all wound rolls against them can be re-rolled). Though if you want to wait till they release some new models for jetbikes and wraithguard I wouldn't blame you, they're getting up their in age.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 19:56

Tiresias wrote:
In the meantime I guess I will be painting some more IG...

LAME XD

just kidding ;-) so i was thinking about power weapons. am i correct, that i can buy a regular PW and than choose how to model it, so that i can model my archon a punisher(for the junger ones, this is the old inccubi weapon, looks like an axe) and than have him strike at ini 1 with +1S and DS2.

if this is right, than this is what i will try:

Archon with PW(axe), Djinn Blade, CD, Soul Trap, SF. comes at around 145P

he is quite pricy but i always play them that way. it is his kabal, he should be the prieciest one.
go into a challange with your PW Axe, load up your Soul Trap, switch to the Djinn Blade and wreck face to the regular guys.

Also a Cheap alternative is the Succubus with PW(axe) who comes at around 80P. not an overall great damage, and with his 4+ inv. save he really needs to be saved. wyches with S&I should escort hime and maybe pull down the attacks of the enemy challanger, if that is possible.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 20:29

Eldar are still suprisingly good, especially as allies. That way you can just ahve the Farseer and not care about how stupidly overpriced most of their units are Razz. Witchblades actually got a small nerf, they used to be s9 versus vehicles (average penetration roll 12-13), now they're s3+2D6 8average penetration roll 10). Always found em a very weird weapon. Cuts through armour like paper, as long as it's in a vehicle. Completely used armour worn by infantry tho.

But this is a DE, not CWE topic. I was thinking about giving an Archon a power-halberd (like the old punishers? I wonder if I could conver one out of the old Incubi), giving him s4 ap2. Only initiative 1, tho, which obviously hurts. Pairing it up with some other ccw (venom blade?) might be worth it, since it would seem you can now get +1 attack from any combination of close combat weapons (power fists and lightning claws state you must have another specialist weapon, but nowhere is it stated you need 2 of the same weapon). Must check rulebook. If it works, you could use the other weapon against low save enemies, and switch to the axe when dealing wiht 2+ saves.

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Dark Omen
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 21:15

As far as Mandrakes with Haemoc goes doesnt work on deployment, the last line of the infiltrate ability says that ICs may not be depolyed with a Squad that has Infiltrate unless they have infiltrate as well.

One thing to note, Lelith ignores all armor saves, this is a special ability not power weapons so she can kill Termi's pretty good still. I believe the Duke's weapons will as well on a roll of a 5+ as they are not power weapons either, just a special ability.

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 22:25

Characters in a challenge are treated as only being in base contact with each other.

This means that Shardnet & Impaler-armed wyches/bloodbrides will be not be able to reduce the attacks of an enemy character fighting a challenge.

By the same rules, when Lelith Hesperax fights in a challenge, she will reduce her opponent's attacks but not those of any other enemies with whom she is in base contact.
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 22:28

So it does dark omen... sad, i was looking forward to using mandrakes for once...

Incubi w/klavex and drazhar

Klavex chalenges squad leader, drazhar uses darting strike to move to where he can take out enemy special weapons. Both have AP2 weapons.

Lelith became pretty nasty, while vect and the rest of the archons (to include succubi) got a pretty sever nerf on their weapons. Vect is now less effective in combat than both lelith and drazhar.... makes sense fluff wise, very disappointing nonetheless.

DE deathstar - 9 incubi, klaves w/demiklaves, drazhar, archon w/shadowfield and PGL. Challenge with the archon to absorb the IC attacks, darting strike drazhar to take out enemy special weapons, use klavex to attempt to take out 2+ characters

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 22:45

I expect that the metagame will result in players fielding lots of ICs with 2+ armor saves and AP2, Unwieldy weapons.

One way to deal with these guys that comes to mind is a Haemonculus or Haemonculus Ancient with a Mindphase Gauntlet. In a challenge, they will be able to strike before these I1 characters and, while unlikely to do damage, will have a good chance of locking them down with the gauntlet while the rest of your squad noms on their squad.

The Mindphase Gauntlet is 10 points and is NOT arcane wargear, so you can take it in addition to whatever other gear you planned to give your Haemonculi.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 02:21

Well regarding the eldar, I must say that the rules are suprisingly good after these years so I have no problems with them, but I am not that charmed by the majority of models, they don't really appeal to me.


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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 06:48

Hey there everyone! I am brannew here and to warhammer 40k in general.
While I was reading the rule on over watch an idea came to me.
Couldnt we just double stack cc units one infront of the other so when the back unit charges it gets a coversave fro, the unit infromt of it? Add in PGL and you would have a 4+save and feelnopain. Another good thing is that if the first unit fails to make the charge the front unit can then charge in without fear of being overwatched. I think the best way to use this would be with wyches and hellions.
Does this stand a chance of working? Im to new to the game to really know.. I just really want to be able to use the wyches I just bought...
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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 06:52

Regardless of whether what you said will work, Wyches can still be used. They're grade A tank killers now, take them in packs of 5 in venoms with haywires And they'll work wonders killing HP3 or less.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 08:08

@Ruke wrote:
Now, as for infiltrate, mandrakes, and haemuns... It does indeed say "In a unit that has at least one model with this special rule..." and it with IC's it gives the example of stubborn, which is in fact worded the same way, so you could attach any of the IC's to them, including farseers and all kinds of fun. Mandrakes are back in play!

Edit:

The following rules are all worded "In a unit that has at least one model with this special rule..." and thus will confer a squads abilities on an IC and an ICs abilities on a squad..."

Acute Senses
Adamantium Will
ATSKNF
Counter Attack
Crusader
Fearless
Hit and Run
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
Night Vision
Preferred Enemy
Scout
Shrouded
Skilled Rider
Slow and Purposeful
Split Fire
Stealth
Stubborn
Tank Hunters
Zealot
----------------

On the upside, if you toss a hamun in with a group of allies, that group gains night vision!

Just found this elsewhere on the forum:

Quote :
Page 38, "Infiltrate," 6th paragraph:

"An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators before deployment."

So looks like the WWP is indeed dead and buried.

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Hijallo
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 08:29

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
I just really want to be able to use the wyches I just bought...

2x5 in Venoms w/ HWG and nothing else, cos they'll die in Str4 Raiders' explosions w/ Awesome New Feel No Pain, die to Overwatch, die in close combat more frequently due to nerfed FnP
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 10:16

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
Hey there everyone! I am brannew here and to warhammer 40k in general.
While I was reading the rule on over watch an idea came to me.
Couldnt we just double stack cc units one infront of the other so when the back unit charges it gets a coversave fro, the unit infromt of it? Add in PGL and you would have a 4+save and feelnopain. Another good thing is that if the first unit fails to make the charge the front unit can then charge in without fear of being overwatched. I think the best way to use this would be with wyches and hellions.
Does this stand a chance of working? Im to new to the game to really know.. I just really want to be able to use the wyches I just bought...

I fear: NO.

Yes you could do that like that, but then you will be outmanned by the opponent. You just cannot play the attrition game with for instance (my) Imperial Guard and hope to win. Just to do some math, my minimal-armed wyches still cost 110 points, that is DOUBLE the point cost of my squad with sniper rifle and 8 lasguns...
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th   What's getting better, and how do we use things with 6th - Page 5 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 01 2012, 11:23

Well wyches can still be used, it is just a bit trickier and you really have to be careful when and where you charge. It is quite logic. I mean, tiny elfs should worry more about how they charge. In 5th it was just to easy to get there. 29'' is a long charge range.

As other people have said, they are now the top tier tank killer.

And when you charge other stuff like infantery you will get overwatched. That could kill some of your wyches, if they hit. After all, it is a 6 that they need to hit you , not that likely. If you are 8'' from the enemy you are charging and if you have PGL you get a 6+ cover save. If you have FnP it is a 5+ save instead. And now, you can shoot before you charge in. One thing that you never did before (see the old Fleet). So with 10 wyches you could get 9 splinter shots and one blaster shot before you join combat. You get the chance to kill some of the enemys models before he get to overwatch. Seems like everyone is forgetting that.

And who was using FnP in combat? Why would you do that when you have 4+ doge?
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