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 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 06:03

XD

so 5 Guys shoot,4 Bolters and a Flammer, which would be the worst case.

4*2*1/6*4/6= 0,8889 + w3*4/6 =avarage 1,3333 --> 2,2223 wounds.

7 wyches attack with 3 attacks and one with agoniser(4 attacks).

7*3*3/6*2/6*2/6= 1,1667 +4*3/6*3/6 =1 --> 2,1667 dead marines

3 hit back, each 1 attack

3*3/6*4/6*3/6=0,5 dead wyches.

So nice fix there, and this was almost a worst case, without any combat drugs or FNP.

Snap shot is a nice and realistic rule, thats not that bad.



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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 07:47

God...

I came here a few months ago to build a fun wych cult army. Bought and painted some already. I detest all that mathhammer stuff and want nothing to do with it. It totally blows the game for me.

After 50+ pages on '6th edition rumors', I guess I will decide what next tomorrow when I go to buy the rulebook.

I hope that afterwards I still have some interest to continue building this army, if not I will consider whether or not GW deserves any of my time and money.

Sick of that 'no your wych cult isn't viable' - stuff it, I just bought it!

Didn't like the last Warhammer FB edition, absolutely HATED what they did with my 20 years Empire army (no i DO NOT want 'pigeon bombs' or griffon-horse hybrid cavalry...), and now, let's see if GW even cares about adult gaming or gamers or just Pound Sterling...
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 07:54

of course it's still viable, you'll just need to be thoughtful about who you charge and when, and don't forget to soften things up first! razorwings, hellions, voidravens, reavers are all very fluffy for a wych cult army and all very viable on the basis of the rules I've seen.

Mathammer has its place, but don't rely on it as anything more than an indicator as to what's reasonable to expect. Common sense does just as well in most cases, taking the example above I think we'd all agree that assaulting 10 marines with 5 wyches is stupid, whilst assaulting 5 marines with 10 wyches is a more even contest (heck, just the points they're worth should tell you that).

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:07

@Tiresias

All comments regarding 'viable' are ussually (if not always) related to tournament play. Who tells you that you can't do whatever the hell you want? Heck, make 6 squads of Wyches with 10 models each, give them haywire grenades, stuff all 6 squads in Raiders, make a squad of 9 blood brides with Lelith Hesperax as HQ, give 'm a raider too. No fast attack, no heavy support, nothing.

Now rush everything forward in friendy games and see what happens.

Who tells you that you can't do this? Have fun... It's your hobby.

My plans for my Dark Eldar army have not changed. I'm still going to do exactly what I want. Well... I shouldn't lie, I'm eyeing Eldar right now for an alliance.

p.s.: Actually, I'm véry curious what this'll do haha...

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:14

strangely, I'm thinking more in the direction of Night lords to ally with even though it's an unholy alliance, I like their style and the way some of them stick two fingers up at the chaos gods.

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:16

I think the only think I wanted to say was: if I actually ran Games Workshop, I would fire on the spot the whole team from the last Warhammer FB edition up until today...

God I miss Andy Chambers...

EDIT: I am sorry, just a bad day...
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:41

Tiresias, take your time, there are still many things we do not know, like as it seems PGL now give you stealth if you are within 8" of the unit shooting you. so at a charge it seems you can use a coversave, so charging through a ruin you will recvive a 3+ cover save. that is pretty nice.

so letz wait and see till some yay sayers get their books, then we can all see what happens. but just that you know, a wych cult will not be easy, just more enjoyable when it works.

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:45

... the obligatory psychic powers and the soon-to-be-common-allies make me think of those ridiculous WFB living terrain and wizard gimmicks I am most definitely NOT using...

But sure, decision time tomorrow.

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 08:50

Mysterious terrain in 40k now...

Yeah, well... What can I say... Some people liked to play 40k like that even before it was in the rulebook, but I too hope it won't be forced upon you in tourneys.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 10:44

@tlronin wrote:
Mysterious terrain in 40k now...

Yeah, well... What can I say... Some people liked to play 40k like that even before it was in the rulebook, but I too hope it won't be forced upon you in tourneys.

Considering that you always decide before the game what terrain does what I'm sure you can avoid it in friendly games. Tournaments ...who knows?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 12:36

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
so 5 Guys shoot,4 Bolters and a Flammer, which would be the worst case.

4*2*1/6*4/6= 0,8889 + w3*4/6 =avarage 1,3333 --> 2,2223 wounds. removed from the closest Wyches who then have to hope that the 2d6 charge roll (with reroll) is enough to reach the Marines. If not...

7 wyches attack with 3 attacks and one with agoniser(4 attacks).

7*3*3/6*2/6*2/6= 1,1667 +4*3/6*3/6 =1 --> 2,1667 dead marines

3 hit back, each 1 attack

3*3/6*4/6*3/6=0,5 dead wyches.

So nice fix there, and this was almost a worst case, without any combat drugs or FNP.

Snap shot is a nice and realistic rule, thats not that bad.

This is the bit that annoys me the most. What the hell is the reasoning behind random assault distances? Why the hell would the same unit be able to charge 12" one turn but only 2" the next? Why??? Mad

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 12:43

Because sometimes people stumble, and if you're charging across a battlefield with bullets flying over your head, you're more likely to stumble than, say, someone who is casually walking through the park?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 12:59

@Ruke wrote:
Because sometimes people stumble, and if you're charging across a battlefield with bullets flying over your head, you're more likely to stumble than, say, someone who is casually walking through the park?

And your whole unit very nicely decides to wait for you to tie your laces up whilst standing in front of 47 gun barrels?

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 13:08

Every time a great hero misses a giant stationary Land Raider that is in 1 meter in front of him i dont imagine it is beacause he have bad shooting skills.

Its nurglings biting his feet.

So it is with 2' charge . Just random 14 nurglings bited 14 feets.


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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 14:36

^ lol!
love it! If they tried it with orks, do you think the ork might try and shoot it off, miss and shoot itself in the foot?

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 14:42

@Count Adhemar wrote:

This is the bit that annoys me the most. What the hell is the reasoning behind random assault distances? Why the hell would the same unit be able to charge 12" one turn but only 2" the next? Why??? Mad

the same reason running is random? it's just not the same as simple advancing.

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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 15:56

Im really not bothered, My opponents always made me charge into terrain anyway.

D6 Fleet and D6 Assault or 2D6 assault with one reroll is a boost.

You can also measure the distance and only reroll if you have to, which removes the risk of rolling a 1 after a 2 or a 3.

Furthermore. Wracks and Grotes now get a 2d6 charge which is excellent.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 16:06

Tiresias wrote:
... the obligatory psychic powers and the soon-to-be-common-allies make me think of those ridiculous WFB living terrain and wizard gimmicks I am most definitely NOT using...
Terrain with special rules, character challenges, special novelty cards for magic... I mean Psyhic Powers. Well, it DOES look like 40K is taking a step towards WHFB Rolling Eyes
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Ceddyn
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 29 2012, 19:46

@XQbitor wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
... the obligatory psychic powers and the soon-to-be-common-allies make me think of those ridiculous WFB living terrain and wizard gimmicks I am most definitely NOT using...
Terrain with special rules, character challenges, special novelty cards for magic... I mean Psyhic Powers. Well, it DOES look like 40K is taking a step towards WHFB Rolling Eyes

Don't forget pre measuring and random charg range.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 05:33

@Ceddyn wrote:
@XQbitor wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
... the obligatory psychic powers and the soon-to-be-common-allies make me think of those ridiculous WFB living terrain and wizard gimmicks I am most definitely NOT using...
Terrain with special rules, character challenges, special novelty cards for magic... I mean Psyhic Powers. Well, it DOES look like 40K is taking a step towards WHFB Rolling Eyes

Don't forget pre measuring and random charg range.
And Overwatch = Stand and Shoot charge reaction... actually a nice defensive addition.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 05:52

I like the idea of terrain with special rules, the thought that I could cower behind a bunch of promethium barrels without any fear of the incoming fire making them explode is a bit, erm, daft. The cards are a gimmick, you don't need them to play as I understand the rules are in the rulebook. Pre-measuring makes more sense in the 41st millenium where rangefinders built into armour suits makes more sense. I'm less keen on the idea of random charge ranges, but I can see why they've done it. If the defensive grenades bit is true though, you're going to want to be around the average rolling distance anyway so only a particularly bad roll will affect it, and since we're fleet it has less impact on us anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 08:05

It's hard to say if Dark Eldar have become better or worse right now. Sure individual units have changed for better or worse but that doesnt really matter.

What does matter is that the meta game will shift and since the meta doesnt revolve around our army at all we will have to play the waiting game. Once the meta have stabilized a bit it will become easier to see what needs to be modified in order to stay competetive.

However I dont think its all that bad, our unreliable antitank just became a lot more reliable with AP2 giving +1 on penetration tables. The hull point issue is in my opinion moot as our vehicles either pass their cover/inv save or die anyway.

Br.

B.

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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 08:12

Quote :
AP2 giving +1 on penetration tables.

Have you seen the table?

You only destroy the vehicle on a 6. So its reallyexactly the same as before.

Granted it nerfs things like autocannons a little
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 08:28

Crude Imperial ML and Autocannon don't receive that bonus.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar   6th edition not lookin good for dark eldar - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 30 2012, 08:41

@Venkh wrote:
Quote :
AP2 giving +1 on penetration tables.

Have you seen the table?

You only destroy the vehicle on a 6. So its reallyexactly the same as before.

Granted it nerfs things like autocannons a little

Only if you view the DE codex in isolation, which is why I think we need to see where the meta shifts before we can really say anything about the power of the DE codex. For example if it shifts towards infantry the relative power of our codex just got a lot better Smile

B.

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