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 The use of a gunline?

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:31

Hey, it might be that this idea will take ages for me to put into action, but I am going to ask it anyway:

So I have (at least on paper) build myself a lightning quick wych cult army of 1000 points with 6 reavers, 5 raiders/ravagers, 29 wyches/bloodbrides and a succubus.

Seeing some battle reports on youtube I wondered what was the point of warrior squads on foot camped on objectives or behind cover. Weren't they wasted over there, not joining the fight right away?

Now I am thinking this might be a good value-for-money mechanism to have an 'anvil' next to the 'hammer': as the fleets sweeps around, the (somewhat sacrificial) warrior infantry squad(s) remain(s) to anchor the own battleline.

Does this make sense? Can I put down an effective medium-to-long-range infantry gunline while the rest of the army is on the advance? Does this make the overall list better or just more diffuse?
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:36

Warriors are a great way of strengthening a force, and I recomend including a couple of squads to sit back and provide covering fire. Their poisoned shots make them nice against horde armies and they should aid your Wyches.

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:41

@Cavash wrote:
Warriors are a great way of strengthening a force, and I recomend including a couple of squads to sit back and provide covering fire. Their poisoned shots make them nice against horde armies and they should aid your Wyches.

Made a quick summary for myself: a squad of 10 with 9 splinter rifles and a splinter cannon is a mere 100 points, a 24-36 inch anti-infantry-nightmare of 24 shots within rapid fire range which can also hold objectives and might be great camped behind some wall. So yeah, I will think about it.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:45

Good. I know some people would disagree with Warriors, but some people have terrible luck with them, but I don't. So try them out before making up your mind completely.

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:49

@Cavash wrote:
Good. I know some people would disagree with Warriors, but some people have terrible luck with them, but I don't. So try them out before making up your mind completely.

Well I don't see anything but a somewhat more expensive, more spikey and beefed-up IG infantry squad, the same armour and range but a better weapon and BS. So it might fulfill exactly the same role of bolstering the line as cheaply as possible...
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 20:55

Tiresias wrote:

Well I don't see anything but a somewhat more expensive, more spikey and beefed-up IG infantry squad, the same armour and range but a better weapon and BS. So it might fulfill exactly the same role of bolstering the line as cheaply as possible...

They do, but I was saying it pre-emptively as I know some people who don't like them and I just wanted to avoid saying it later.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 21:51

I still am a fan of wyches, but with a little help of mathhammer, i am finaly seing their use, just not on a raider for being weapon platforms.
The warriors are great to supress fire, or leaving them alone, makeing the opponent forget they exist and them blam! Very Happy

I prefere assault to shooting with DE - we are masters of close up massacre after all - but i do take firesupport warriors. usually 5 in a venom for every 10 wyches if i can make it with points - some times i cant. But then thats not the bigest loss for me.

They are a good solution to supress the enemy, keep them in cover, until your incu can arrive to shout SOULS FOR COMMORRAGH! in the opponents ears from very close up Smile ow and decimate the enemy.
I have bad experience with warriors, but math sais they can be very potent in the right hands - so in this way: sry Cavash for our prev. arguments.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 21:55

@Enfernux wrote:

I have bad experience with warriors, but math sais they can be very potent in the right hands - so in this way: sry Cavash for our prev. arguments.

Don't worry about it, I prefer to think of them as discussions. Smile

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10 2012, 23:48

Yes, sitting back with a Dark Lance on an objective isn't the worst idea. Generally, people just recall them onto objectives late in the game through a Raider transport, but who knows how the missions are gonna change in Sixth edition.
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 00:58

well...if they hang back, a cannon is good to to lay down fire on advancing unites. 6 shots are 6 shots.
i'll put it math hammer wise: darklance bs4s8ap2h1lance: 0.5 kills vs anything.
cannon bs4s4+ap5h6 vs
GEQ 1.33
MEQ 0.88
TEQ 0.44
OEQ 2.66
overall 1.37. So 1.37 over 0.5, id take, although it cant pop vehicles. On the other hand, you wont see much poping from 1 darklance.
mathhammer lance vs av10
0.148 to wreck or explode.
vs av11
0.111 to wreck or explode
vs av12+
0.074 to wreck or explode so...vs av10 vehicles - side armor or DE transports - the DL is good. In any other case, just go with the cannon.

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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 04:10

Like I said, it's conjecture with the possibility of 6th ed nerfing transports (which I doubt, while the noobs are already bawwwing over the possibility of hull points, this addition to the rules is actually not significant), with 5th edition meta, you want Dark Lances. If your enemies are dumb enough to advance on you ON FOOT in 5th ed, they're doomed either way.
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 09:48

Well I believe in designated roles for units. While that dark lance may be a good weapon, I have the needed amount on raiders and ravagers, plus it would make a cheap AI 100 point warrior squad into a somewhat more expensive 115 point squad with no clear role - does it shoot with the DL at vehicles? Then I waste 9-18 shots of AI-fire. Do I shoot at infantry? Then the dark lance is overkill. For the same reason I would place a heavy bolter in an IG rifle squad but never a lascannon - those are best delegated to heavy weapon teams.

So a splinter cannon it is (for me).
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 19:12

I have literally never found myself thinking, "Gee, I got enough Dark Lances." Rolling Eyes
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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 19:28

@Arrex wrote:
I have literally never found myself thinking, "Gee, I got enough Dark Lances." Rolling Eyes

Point taken...
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 11 2012, 22:40

i never got to the point: maybe this amount of lances wont be enough. I usually upgrade almost all DLs to disint. Although i DO use void lances and blasters on my warriors, but thats all. The rest? HWG. Or if i have JB or Scourges: Heat lance or HWB. I take Heat lance for JB and HWB for scourge. But thats me and me good dice Smile

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Chaeril
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 12 2012, 08:31

Your comments tell me that it was wrong of me to dump the haywire grenades, but dammit, I needed those points back... Plus, squads of 130 points with only a 6+ save scare the sh*t out of me, too much fragile eggs in one basket, then again it might be I have just been an IG player for too long (with its 50 points 10 men infantry squads...)
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PostSubject: Re: The use of a gunline?   The use of a gunline? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 21 2012, 22:10

@Arrex wrote:
I have literally never found myself thinking, "Gee, I got enough Dark Lances." Rolling Eyes
I have.
Or rather, I found myself wishing I had more S.Cannons and less Lances.
Takes some doing though.

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