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Torpedo Vegas
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PostSubject: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:22

I'm asking this because they come off as a people dedicated solely to themselves, and thier own interests. In Madam Baeda's Gift they don't have a word for love so much as owning someone. The closest phrase they have is, roughly "To make one another your prized property or possession."

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:26

Since the Dark Eldar are quintessentially Drow in space, I would say no. Especially since they don't have a word for love. If a Dark Eldar did feel a tickling of his/her cockles, it would be something so alien to us as human beings, we wouldn't be able to compare it.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:28

Is there Space Dritz then?

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:37

I belive they can...some of them....like 1%, in some twisted way.
But It would be a deep secret cuz most would see love as weakness and we know what happend to weak DE.

Im sure they love to kill Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:54

@Torpedo Vegas wrote:
Is there Space Dritz then?

Can Dark Eldar feel love? Jareth

Yes, Jareth the Goblin King have two...

I mean Duke have two swords.

(I'm gonna base My Duke on David Bowie.)
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:56

Everyone loves the Duke though.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 23:20

I would say to a degree, but probably not like how we Humans feel love. There was probably some sort of emotion between Malys and Vect, but as we can all see, it didn't exactly work out.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 04 2011, 00:47

@Local_Ork wrote:
@Torpedo Vegas wrote:
Is there Space Dritz then?

Can Dark Eldar feel love? Jareth

Yes, Jareth the Goblin King have two...

I mean Duke have two swords.

(I'm gonna base My Duke on David Bowie.)
That will be epic. I want lots of pictures.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 04 2011, 00:58

@Rangrok1k
She hates him, he dosnt care sort of feelings Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 04 2011, 06:55

@Rangrok1k wrote:
I would say to a degree, but probably not like how we Humans feel love. There was probably some sort of emotion between Malys and Vect, but as we can all see, it didn't exactly work out.

Well, this. Dark Eldar are basically pre-Fall Eldar to the max. With some changes. But they're still emotional junkies, and seeing how love is one of the most powerful emotions in us humans, I'd say it'd be quite a powerful emotion for Eldar too. They might not admit it readily, but I'm sure they do feel love in some twisted way.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 04 2011, 08:49

The Dark Eldar idea of love, or the closest they have to it, is having another submit totally to them. However, the submission has to be willing. Othervice it's just regular old slavery. "Mistress Baeda's Gift" from the "Fear the Alien" book is all about it. The Archon attempts to bring an awesome enough gift for the lady so that she'd submit to him in return. While it's pretty clear that he is in love, he doesn't quite understand the concept. He talks to a human woman who'se husband he killed, trying to understand why exactly she cared about him and what he gave her to make her submit to him. The thought that two people would dedicated themselves to eachother out of love is utterly alien to him, as for the Dark Eldar there exist only degrees of enslavement.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 10:24

I'd say a DE could feel love, and probably more deeply than a human ever could. This probably comes with a few complications, however.

They want to possess the other person, as has been mentioned. They are also completely self-absorbed, so the idea of doing anything for another while hurting oneself is alien, if not downright dangerous to them, in their society. However, I don't see why you couldn't have two kabalites who fall in love over their similarities (a shared appreciation for the taste of slow-roasted Tau, for example), and go on long, romantic killing sprees throughout Realspace. Remember the Shrek montage, where Fiona and Shrek find all they have in common through tying animals in knots and burping? Think like that, except more torture, and maybe the sharing of kills and souls. So long as they are both enjoying each other, they could continue a loving, secure relationship for centuries as they murder and pillage together. These relationships are where I imagine Trueborn come from.

Of course, this is where Babylon 5 may prove prophetic: "Only those whose lives are short can believe that love is eternal."

Just my totally non-canonical, imaginary, and pretty much insignificant two cents.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 13:23

@kargenetic
Spot on bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 13:50

I stole this from somewhere else and twisted it to fit. But it really does fit very well, if I do say so myself.

Dark Eldar Personality
Superiority
Dark Eldar know they are superior, especially to slave races. Whether openly derisive of other races or quietly condescending, a Dark Eldar should make others understand that whatever power they may gain, they can never match what Dark Eldar accomplish simply by simply existing.

Egotism
Dark Eldar believe in themselves because faith in others is foreign to them. They have always relied on their own wits and skills to survive, and they must continue to believe that they can, or they'll succumb to the depredations of other Dark Eldar trying to scramble up the social ladder.

Suspicion
Treachery and lies are expected in Dark Eldar society, and a devastating betrayal is admired. Despite their sense of superiority, most Dark Eldar fear that others may get the better of them somehow, and they are always on their guards.

Humility
While not commonly associated with Dark Eldar, humility is a necessary skill in their cutthroat culture. Confronted on equal or lesser footing with a being of greater power, Dark Eldar will often abase themselves to survive. The dead don't get revenge.

Caution
Dark Eldar take calculated risks. Only those with a death wish put themselves in situations that are likely to turn against them. Thus, Dark Eldar rarely fight for anything but themselves. For a greater cause, some Dark Eldar take greater risks, but only the most fanatic fight fearlessly.

Drive
Every action must have a purpose, and Dark Eldar take steps toward some end with everything they do. The most driven are usually the most powerful.

Dark Eldar Psyche
The Dark Eldar psyche is both similar to and vastly different from that of other intelligent beings. Adrift in darkness and treachery, Dark Eldar have developed a tortured psychology as a survival mechanism. Before you can understand their culture and history, you must understand the strange forces and emotions that drive them.

Greed
Dark Eldar hunger for wealth and power and replenishment of their draining soul, but this hunger is greater than simple avarice. They see wealth as a means to power, and power as a means of control. Dark Eldar need control. They need to feel like they are the manipulators rather than the manipulated. Throughout their lives, Dark Eldar are trapped in a web of treachery where each step could be their last. The strong rule over the weak and use or kill them at a whim. In such a turbulent and abusive environment, Dark Eldar see power and control as security. This is illusion, though, perpetuated by the fact that even those who have gained some measure of control are insecure but dare not admit it--and with good reason: Fear is viewed as weakness, and showing it turns erstwhile allies into deadly foes and servants into power-hungry murderers. Security is forever out of reach so long as Dark Eldar culture does not change.

Hate
All Dark Eldar hate all other Dark Eldar. This hatred stems in many cases from envy. A Dark Eldar who sees someone more powerful, more intelligent, or more secure sees an enemy. Each believes that he should be the most important and powerful--in effect, every Dark Eldar desires a type of godhoodlike status. But each fears that others with prove to be better. A Dark Eldar's level of insecurity is roughly related to his place in society. When a Dark Eldar's self-hatred and self-doubt outweigh his hatred of others, he fails to take risks and can no longer seize what should be his.

Gluttony
There are very few obese Dark Eldar (though probably some do exist). This is not to say that Dark Eldarmdo not engage in binge eating. They do so with great frequency, often holding or being privy to grand parties (at least the nobles and the wealthy). But being overweight or too obsessed with food is a weakness, and weakness is deadly. The same is true of alcohol consumption: It's simply too dangerous. This problem is skirted around by practices such as self-induced vomiting and various drugs or herbs to waylay the effects of alcohol consumption. Those few Dark Eldar who blatantly live life as obese are in positions of great authority and power, which manages to keep most predators at bay, at least for a time.

Sloth
Dark Eldar must constantly struggle and forever be on their guard. Laziness often results in defeat. At the same time, they tire of always being watchful. The desire for power is also a desire for the opportunity to rest. Although most Dark Eldar meditate and most participate in leisure pursuits, few understand what it means to truly relax. Even so, some do become slothful and listless. These Dark Eldar usually fall by the wayside as their fellows gain power.

Wrath
Anger is a Dark Eldar's constant companion. The emotion is considered both normal and inevitable, but a Dark Eldar's reaction to it falls in one of two camps. Some believe that anger itself is a tool: red-hot rage gives you strength to persevere over your foes. Others believe that anger should be cool and calculating: Hiding it will give you more opportunities to take vengeance. Most Dark Eldar borrow from both schools of thought as the situation demands, but none would argue about the outcome: revenge.

Revenge is an art form among the Dark Eldar. It comes quickly or takes centuries. It can be long and excruciatingly painful, or painless and deadly swift. All Dark Eldar appreciate a well-executed vengeance, even when they are the targets. There are as many flavors of revenge as there are Dark Eldar. Each Dark Eldar establishes a preferred style at an early age, using this as a kind of signature and warning to others. Some prefer to use the techniques of their enemies in order to place the blame on others, but this in turn becomes their own style, and Dark Eldar learn to look through such deceits to find the responsible party.

Pride
Pride is the same as self-confidence among the Dark Eldar. A truly humble Dark Eldar is destined to remain on the lowest rungs of the social ladder. Most Dark Eldar are like bullies. They put up a haughty front, intimidating and degrading all whom they can to hide their own doubts and fears. Anything that shakes a Dark Eldar's sense of pride is likely to result in a fit of pique. Pique breeds petty paybacks, small actions meant to harm without giving cause for full-blown, deadly revenge.

Deceit
Deceit is integral to the nature of Dark Eldar. They deceive others to protect themselves, and they deceive themselves to protect their egos. Lying is second nature to most Dark Eldar, and telling lies well is a skill fostered from childhood.

Betrayal
Betrayal is a virtual art form amongst Dark Eldar, held as an ideal of the highest factor, a fact which continues to lead to the eventual downfall of the race as a whole. It shouldn't be surprising, taking this into account, which most Dark Eldar tend to be paranoid. A certain amount of suspicion is a survival mechanism; even through a foe might not be acting against you now, one is certain to do so in the near future. Yet Dark Eldar who become too defensive lost their edge, becoming victims of their own fear.

Lust
Given their tense and deadly society, it is surprising that lust plays any part in a Dark Eldar's life, but lust and sex (consensual or not) are huge factors in Dark Eldar psychology. Sex plays many roles. It is a release of tension, a moment of closeness, and it staves off fear of inevitable death. Despite their long life spans, few Dark Eldar can expect to die of old age, so procreation is a way to establish a kind of life beyond death. Sex is also one of the rare times when Dark Eldar can express a minor degree of tenderness for one another. It is not always tender, of course, but it offers pleasure in being weak or strong, and Dark Eldar involved in consensual sex often reverse their normal roles in society. Slaves can be masters, and masters, slaves. In this physical release, Dark Eldar come as close to happiness as most of them will ever get. Dark Eldar probably have no real understanding of monogamy or marriage. They have children to further their bloodline and power, and sometimes parents make an effort to protect a child, but both parents will likely have many partners and form no lasting relationship as the child grows to maturity.




Take it or leave it. My insight into Dark Eldar personality and psyche.


Last edited by Xelkireth on Sun Jun 05 2011, 14:06; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 14:04

You let a "Drow" slip through under caution Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 14:06

Like I said. I took it from somewhere else.


It still fits.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 06 2011, 15:06

Awesome! A good read, thanks for posting.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 09:44

Once again, I gotta say that I dislike the likening (no pun intended) of Dark Eldar to "Drow in space". Betrayals occur, yes, but they are far less frequent than imagined, and their psyche is not keyed to this "all betrayals, all the time!" mindset.

Instead, a Dark Eldar is exactly what the Eldar have always been described as, utterly uninhibited, with emotions far more extreme than anything a human could understand. The Dark Eldar do feel love, but frequently run the risk of it slipping into lust instead. Amongst higher tiers of society, while a male or female may initially take many lovers, they would eventually settle on just one mate. Whether who this mate is can either be politically motivated (to strengthen ties to another House, in the case of the nobility, or to another Kabal, to finalise an alliance), or because of actual love.

The biggest obstacle to the formation of a loving bond like this though is that it can be seen as a distraction by the DE in question, who does his best to ignore the feelings, possibly even having the other DE "removed", and the fact that just as the Eldar experience love far more fully than any human, they also experience sorrow and rage. In the unrestrained environment of Commorragh, the event of a lover being spurned often has disastrous consequences, as the DE in question either succumbs to despair or blinding rage, resulting in the attempted killing of one or the other. If this manages to be avoided, and the love is reciprocated, the pair form an exclusive bond.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 09:54

The fact is the Black Library writers are writing them very much as "Drow in Space," whether we like it or not. I agree that Drow and Dark Eldar should be separate, but the merger of the two personae is already happening. Reference: Midnight on the Street of Knives and Dark Disciple.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 11:14

Yeah, I know. I just hope it's a trend we see reversed in the near future. The Dark/Craftworld Eldar are a chance to make something different than "Elves in space". With the Craftworlders, we seem to have managed it, mostly. The same cannot be said for the Dark Eldar...

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 12:29

We've got it to a degree, but I don't see the trend reversing. It's easier to write and without someone like Phil Kelly overlooking the Black Library productions (which will never happen unfortunately) we're stuck with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13 2011, 01:03

Technically they can but I think. At the end of Mistress beda's gift she says "I can be with you now because there is allways a whole in your soul for me to feed from" so I think they feed of each others emotion.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 21 2011, 18:25

Yes, I think they can feel love. However, often in the pursuit of excess and madness in the emotion, it usually doesn't work out, and I imagine they don't like to place trust or time in another.

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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 22 2011, 11:39

@Rangrok1k wrote:
I would say to a degree, but probably not like how we Humans feel love. There was probably some sort of emotion between Malys and Vect, but as we can all see, it didn't exactly work out.

This is a very important example. While is was certainly not love, Vect felt an interest in her mind, an appreciation. I think that a deep appreciation of another's talents, ability and mind is the closest they get.


...it just so happens that Vect gets bored rather quickly.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Dark Eldar feel love?   Can Dark Eldar feel love? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 23 2011, 03:24

What's wrong with Drow in space? Cool No it fits really well. I always thought that pre-fall society evolved into the "everyone's out to get me" culture because, well, everyone was out to get everyone. Pleasure cults were hunting everything they could for sport. A few aristocrats, their favoured servants and slaves survived in the webway. These are the suave Eldar who played advanced politics as much as enjoying their mad hobbies. They are the kind to think "I'll let loose when no one is looking" at the same time as "I'm always being watched". As for love, they will immerse themselves in it once they've disarmed their "prized target". To admit its love, even to themselves, is to admit another has control over your mind. Therefore its about possessing the other. This has become engrained in the psyche - a very very close second nature.

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