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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:12

So, i've recently collected all the pieces/units I can afford at this point in time and my group is trying to put together a mini tourny this weekend and i'm at a loss for what to do with what I have.

what I have:
10 warriors or trueborn
20 wyches or hekatrix
10 scourges
2 raiders
2 ravagers
1 succubus
1 sslyth ( I planned on using as a duke proxy)

any help would be much appreciated.

(also, I am not opposed to taking a ravager as a dais)

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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:15

Would be helpful to know at which point level the tourney will be played. 750, 1000, 1250, something else?

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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:16

it's pending what I can muster point wise, my apologies on that lack of information.

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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:48

The miniatures you got would be well suited for 100-1250 points. This is with what I came up for 1k points:

*************** 2 HQ ***************

Haemonculus (proxied by sslyth)
- 1 x Venomblade
- Liquifier
- - - > 65 Points

Succubus
- 1 x Agoniser
- Haywire Grenades
- - - > 90 Points


*************** 2 Troops ***************

8 Wyches
- 1 x Shardnet & Impaler
- Haywire Grenades
+ Hekatrix
- Agoniser
+ Raider
- Dark Lance
- Grisly Trophies
- Flickerfield
- - - > 211 Points

10 Warriors
- 1 x Blaster
- 1 x Splintercannon
+ Raider
- Dark Lance
- Flickerfield
- - - > 185 Points


*************** 2 Fast Attack ***************

5 Scourges
- 2 x Haywire-blaster
- - - > 130 Points

3 Scourges
- - - > 66 Points


*************** 2 Heavy Support ***************

Ravager
- 3 x Dark Lance
- Nightfield
- Flickerfield
- - - > 125 Points

Ravager
- 3 x Dark Lance
- Nightfield
- Flickerfield
- - - > 125 Points

Points total 997

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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 21:16

And with the 1250 point cap i'd be able to max my scourge squad out and "tool-up" a few more things correct?

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 21:29

[EDIT: I got ninja'ed by SleepyPillow!]

I'll take the case!

I would attempt to play at the lowest point total you can. The limiting factor for most Dark Eldar armies are their transports. You only have two, so I'm thinking two assault squads. The Warriors get to be on backfield support duty, which is a role most efficiently played by Trueborn, but then Trueborn don't get to hold objectives. For example-

Succubus, Agonizer, Haywire Grenades 90

Haemonculus, Liquifier, Venom Blade 65

3 Trueborn, 2 Dark Lance 86

8 Wyches, Haywire Grenades, Wych Weapon 218
Hekatrix, Agonizer
Raider, Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies

8 Wyches, Haywire Grenades, Wych Weapon 218
Hekatrix, Agonizer
Raider, Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies

5 Warriors, Blaster 60

Ravager, 3 Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields 125
Ravager, 3 Dark Lance, Flickerfield, Night Shields 125

Total: 997

Respectable! If you don't like Night Shields or Grisly Trophies, feel free to convert those points into extra Trueborn. Yes, normally ablative wounds are double-triple heresy, but it's a sniper squad in cover with Ld 9- it has a chance to use them profitably.

My alternate take is more radical-

2 x [ Haemonculus, Liquifier, Webway Portal] 190 (proxy the Succusbus AND the Sslyth!)

4 x [4 Wyches, Haywire Grenades+Hekatrix, Agonizer] 360

2 x [5 Warrior, Blaster+Raider, Flickerfield] 260

1 x [4 Scourges, 2 Heat Lance+Solarite, Blast Pistol] 140

Total: 975

With the remaining points going wherever.It's possible to squeeze in the second squad of Scourges, but you have to cut Agonizers, Liquifiers, Blasters...all kinds of goodies that might not be worth it.

Good luck at the tournament! Let us know how it turns out.

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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 22:06

What if I were I took vect and the dais,
dais would operate the same as a ravager and have added ability to transport while kicking me into a higher point bracket.
thoughts?

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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 22:22

The problem with the dias is the same with the voidraven bomber. Suited for 2 jobs, bad in both.

The Basic point with the Dias is, that it doesn't operate as a ravager. The dias doesn't have aerial assault, which makes 2 of the 3 Dark Lances useless until it's done transporting. It's also way to expensive for a 13/13/13 raider.

Vect itself is cool 'n stuff, but I'm not a huge fan of intense point investments in HQ choices as a DE player, duo to their lack of defense.

Even with Vect I wouldn't go higher than 1500 points with the models you got.

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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 22:24

Okay, so .. say I wanna shoot for 1500, what then?

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 14:40

bunbun_phd wrote:
Okay, so .. say I wanna shoot for 1500, what then?

get more transports and more warriors
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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 22:16

I've heard mixed reviews on warriors, would you care to enlighten me as to how they are properly used?
i've been skimming through the forums here and can't seem to find anything that truly justifies them aside from an occasional gun boat idea that was never fully expanded upon, I get a vast majority of the units and their desired position/effect.. not so much with the warriors.

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citywidecrayon
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 23:58

Extra anti tank is what the warriors let you do. another 2 dark light weapons if you take a small 5 man squad with a blaster in a raider. Or a hybrid unit which is always useful if you take them in a venom.

Not just that but they're good for holding objectives. Wyches are an offensive tool, warriors not so much.
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSat May 19 2012, 00:05

I figured between the ravagers, scourges, and (future purchase) blasterborn venoms would be for, not to mention the raiders having AT as well, wouldn't it make more sense to have some AI in there somewhere, I could do defensive placements of these guys or attempt the gunboat idea or is this a foolish thought?

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citywidecrayon
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSat May 19 2012, 01:35

The wyches are your main AI in CC and your Venoms can provide a lot of AI in the shooting phase provided you have a decent number in there. If you're worried about AI then grab 2 or 3 5man kabalite squads with blaster in venoms, this gives you extra anti tank (always important to have more than you think would be enough as DL has a terrible ability to glance more often than not)

3 of those proposed squads give you an extra 3 Dark light weapons and 36 splinter cannon shots thus adding to your anti tank and giving you even more in the AI department. Another AI option is to go with a razorwing with disintigrators and a splinter cannon. It's expensive but it's definitely good at AI
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bunbun_phd
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSat May 19 2012, 20:07

I thought venoms "should" be reserved for the blasterborn and warriors are to be plopped on objectives to sit pretty.

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSat May 19 2012, 21:17

Venoms are reserved for everyone! 13 Venoms! Venoms for the Venom God!

But, seriously now. If your Warriors spend turns on your objective sitting pretty, then you're missing big opportunities. If you put 4-6 Warrior squads in Venoms or Raiders, they all get to press forward and combine their fire on a primary threat per turn. Some will die to return fire, yes, but killing your enemy quickly is the best way to keep the 2-3 alive that you want to zoom 24" in any direction to claim any objective you damn well please.

That's what I meant when I said earlier "The limiting factor of most Dark Eldar armies are their transports". Without them, it's harder for elements of your army to support each other because they are going at different speeds.

That's why I recommend you play at a lower point total until you can give your men their rides. The lower points means your enemy probably has less ability to synergize as well (read: fewer Razorbacks and Chimeras). The first list I gave you had no choice but to strand two squads, and that is about as many as I would strand, because, moving to my next point:

If you are the one on defense (you meantioned "defensive placements"), being pressured by Drop Pods or jump packs or outflank or whatever, then you STILL would prefer to have transports because you get the option to redeploy your entire force. Anyone footslogging is SOL at that point, but at least they get to be a speedbump to let the rest of your force get into positon.


In summary- Transports: Not Just For Blasterborn! A Good Defense Is Not To Be There! A Better Defense Is To Blow It Up!

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeMon May 21 2012, 15:21

bunbun_phd wrote:
I've heard mixed reviews on warriors, would you care to enlighten me as to how they are properly used?
i've been skimming through the forums here and can't seem to find anything that truly justifies them aside from an occasional gun boat idea that was never fully expanded upon, I get a vast majority of the units and their desired position/effect.. not so much with the warriors.

lol and almost every list has them in there... there is a reason you dont see a full wych cult all too often Razz

Warriors are our general purpose unit. Most people take a 5 man w/ blaster in a transport and call it a day. There is also some things that can be said for the gunboat (10 man w/ blaster and splinter cannon in raider) but normally 125 points for 5 man, blaster, and dual cannon venom is a steal for cheap and efficient troops.

Wyches suffer from being S3. They are used for tarpits and haywire shenannigans. They can be built to kill, but you have to be careful again, as their S3 is going to hurt you against MEQ, and you either have to position them well, or pepper the unit you are about to assault with some venom fire to lower the amount of MEQ they have to kill... which again comes to 5 man warrior w/ blaster in venom...
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSun May 27 2012, 19:12

Thanks for all the info guys, I ended up using sleepy pillows list with a few modifications as we played 1250 pts.
I'm a little behind on updating the progress so my apologies, last weekend saw the dark eldar best a variety of armies; orks, dark angels, tau, eldar, and chaos... however I lost to grey knights and IG, the knights played a hell of a game and definitely had dice luck on their side. IG fielded more troops than I could feasibly shoot at.

Yesterday we revisited the battle grounds and had upped the points to 1500, I did go buy more models before doing so, 2 raiders, 2 venoms, 20 kabalites, 1 ravager.
It made a massive difference, although I didn't fare as well yesterday as I did before ( I think they all did their homework) but now I have a better grasp on how to wield the glass sledgehammer that is the dark eldar.

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: need help building an army on short notice   need help building an army on short notice I_icon_minitimeSun May 27 2012, 21:40

Congrats on the wins! I am quite happy to see you analyzing your losses as well. Keep it up, and you'll be able to put up a good fight no matter who you face.

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