THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesLatest imagesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 The Black Kabal

Go down 
+2
Greenest
succorax
6 posters
AuthorMessage
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeMon May 14 2012, 19:30

I have wrote this list thinking it quite good and would like some critique as im a quite new to the dark eldar scene.

bit of background as i find it fun is this..
Its called "the black kabal" as a joke to reference the black knight from monty pythons the holy grail

so i called my archon in the list Succorax(and hence username) and came up with a quote for her"a flesh wound you say,mmmmmm, lets see what we can do about that, shall we?"

the army list as such

HQ

Archon succorax=200 points
blaster
combat drugs
shadowfield
phantasm grenade launcher
soul-trap
huskblade
ghostplate armour

Duke Sliscus=150 points

Elites

9 incubi (succorax's Gaurd)=263 points
klaivex leader
demiklaves
bloodstone(thought would be good against SM and CSM)
onslaught

carried by a radier = (80) with
flickerfields(5++ Very Happy )
Grisly Trophies
Shock Prow as i thought it is not a bad idea as i can go flat out 18' = +6 on ramming with possible 13 armour

9 kabalite trueborn(Sliscus' entourage)=183
7 shardcarbines(assault 3 seemed worth it)
1 blaster(incase of vechiles)
1 Dark lance(in vechile they can fire heavy weap while moving as it counts as defensive weapon lol! Very Happy )

carried by a raider=(80) with
night shields
flickerfield

Troops

3x10 kabalite warriors = 300 for all squads
1 splinter cannon

10 wyches= 140 points (took em to make up points and for extra scoring unit that had some cc ability)
1 hexatrixs
razor flails

Fast Attack

3 x 3 reaver jetbikes. each group with
an arena champion carring a power weapon
cluster caltrops
and a heat lance to pop vechiles
=354 points for all squads

Heavy Support

2x ravagers
each with nightshields and flickerfields=250 points

and thats my two thousand points...
please critique and let me know any help
Back to top Go down
Greenest
Hellion
Greenest


Posts : 35
Join date : 2012-05-15
Location : Delaware, USA

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 21:00

I should preface this with two points/disclaimers: 1. I am also new to dark eldar. All of the experience I have comes from a month and a half of obsessive reading of guides and forum discussions as well as watching a large number of battle reports on youtube. 2. I am unsure of how you plan to play your army, so any advice I give will be quite general and may not apply. For both reasons, if something sounds right, use it. If it sounds to you completely wrong, discard it.

Incubi: The incubi are killers through and through. For the most part, they can tear through just about any standard opponent you put them up against given high enough numbers. While this may seem like a boon, it does have its drawbacks: Picture your 200 pt archon and your 263 pt incubi bodyguard carried in their 80 pt raider speeding towards your SM opponent. Assume that you are able to reach them in your raider without it getting blown out of the sky like raiders have a tendency to do. We'll credit some lucky rolls with the flickerfield and some unlucky rolls by your opponent. You disembark, and move six inches towards your opponents sternguard. You get off a shot with the bloodstone and manage to take out one marine. With 9 left and an independent character, you charge. If I did my math correctly, you get 24 power attacks at strength 4, six power attacks at strength 5, and 5 at strength 3. Also keep in mind that, since your lowest initiative is 5, all of your attacks will swing first. Long story short, there is no more sternguard, and we'll throw in your archon getting that IC, doubling his strength. This is fantastic! Now, however, you look around, and see that every single gun that your opponent has in his 2000 point army is pointed right at your 200 point archon and his 263 point incubi bodyguard. The results aren't pretty and they end with you losing almost 1/4 of your army pointwise.

The best way to go would be to cut out a few of those incubi, and keep your opponents in combat until their turn. That way, they can kill themselves, and you can use your turn to assault another unit. Also, you can probably take out some of that gear. Remember, too killy can put you in a bad place. The only place where I could see this many incubi being necessary would be for any of the SM _____wing armies, with massed terminators.

Your raider for your Incubi: I see that you gave it grisly trophies. This could definitely be useful, but you have to be careful of one thing: if you are keeping your raider within the necessary range to help your Incubi, you're keeping it well within the range of any melta or rapidfire weapons. If you want to keep grisly trophies, think about taking night shields. It can be the difference between life and death in that kind situation.

Troops: It seems like half your army (incubi, trueborn, and reavers) are built to zoom across the board and get into the action. None of your troops, however, have any of those capabilities. I might be worried that, by the time your troops reached the fighting, they might be too late to reinforce your forces which entered combat the second turn. In addition, all of your troops (wyches especially) are vulnerable to enemy fire. The wyches especially are completely useless except in cc. If you were to add just one more raider, I would recommend it for the wyches.

Fast attack: From what I've read, the idea behind having 3-man reaver squads is for suicide missions to blow up a piece of armor, the idea being that, after it's mission, it is left vulnerable and a smaller squad will mean a smaller loss of points. From what I'm seeing on your list, however, you're building them to take on a number of roles, from buzzing by and slicing a squad to popping tanks to actual close combat. My concern is that, by decking them out as much as you are, and by keeping them as separate three-man squads, they will become very expensive without having any purpose to which they excel. Either A. cut out all of the extra stuff and keep them as suicide squads which can deal out a wound or two on their way, or B. make a larger group of them, so that they can stand up in cc, deal a solid number of wounds with their bladevanes and every once in a while take advantage of an opponent's mistake and pop an unprotected piece of armor.

My advice in general: pick out for each unit what their job is, and make sure that they are well-equipped enough to handle that job and (hopefully) survive... although with dark eldar that latter task is a lot more difficult.

_________________
"I came to bring the pain, hardcore from the brain/Let's go inside my astral plane." - Method Man, Archon of the Wu Tang Kabal.
-1d4chan
Back to top Go down
SleepyPillow
Kabalite Warrior
SleepyPillow


Posts : 188
Join date : 2012-04-07
Location : Germany

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeWed May 16 2012, 21:23

Dark Footdar does not really work. Get Vehicles for your troops, get cheaper reaver squads. Or better just read through some lists here in the forum that got the idea behind a basic dark eldar list.
Ont thing made me laugh pretty hard, here this one....
succorax wrote:

1 Dark lance(in vechile they can fire heavy weap while moving as it counts as defensive weapon lol! Very Happy )
Please what? A Dark Lance is Strength 8 which is definitely not Strength 4 or less to be defensive.
Not to mention that only the weapons which the vehicle itself has, count to defensive / not defensive.
Back to top Go down
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 19:40

fair enough i read a rule later instantly telling me about the str 4 so ok.... i was told however that people being carried by the vechile counted towards the weapons eg the trueborn have poisoned weapoons so lower than 4 meaning they can shoot if the raider moves 12.... if this is wrong please explain to me why i see so many people moving in vechiles and shooting all the weapons of the embarked unit.

_________________
where the darkness is you dare not creep.... for the ginger dark eldar await.... and thats something more terrifying than anything in space Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Also looking to trade 5 build and sprayed helions for 3 Reaver jetbikes PM me if interested. can send photos and would pref the bikes unpainted or just sprayed.
Back to top Go down
SleepyPillow
Kabalite Warrior
SleepyPillow


Posts : 188
Join date : 2012-04-07
Location : Germany

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:11

succorax wrote:
fair enough i read a rule later instantly telling me about the str 4 so ok.... i was told however that people being carried by the vechile counted towards the weapons eg the trueborn have poisoned weapoons so lower than 4 meaning they can shoot if the raider moves 12.... if this is wrong please explain to me why i see so many people moving in vechiles and shooting all the weapons of the embarked unit.

That's kinda easy to explain.

Embarked unit's don't count in any way to the weaponry of their transport. They count as a moved unit if the transporter moved and they count as a standing unit if the transporter didn't moved.

_________________
Once committed, fear not the blade.
Back to top Go down
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 20:52

ok ty re wrote the list with some of your tips.

this army is a 1500 point and its meant to charge as fast as possible into the enemy eg turn 1 or 2

HQ archon with Huskblade PGL soul trap shadowfeild combat drugs = 170
accompanied by 5 incubi =110
in raider with NS and FF=80

Also in the same raider
4 kabalite trueborn 4 blasters = 108

2x
(9 wyches(1 upgraded to hexatrix carrying PGL and agoniser)
all have haywaire grenades=160
in a raider FF NS and shock prow if A vechile still up at a distance, B raider is empty C, raider isnt destroyed and has lost weapon = 85) =490 for both sqauds and transport

Duke sliscus 150
with 9 warriors=81 pts
raider with Splinter racks NS and FF= 90 (these are to hold objective late game by DS)

and 3x(3 reaver jetbikes 1 blaster=81)= 243 for all 3 squads
total is 1502
thoughts and any more tips?

_________________
where the darkness is you dare not creep.... for the ginger dark eldar await.... and thats something more terrifying than anything in space Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Also looking to trade 5 build and sprayed helions for 3 Reaver jetbikes PM me if interested. can send photos and would pref the bikes unpainted or just sprayed.
Back to top Go down
SleepyPillow
Kabalite Warrior
SleepyPillow


Posts : 188
Join date : 2012-04-07
Location : Germany

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 21:04

succorax wrote:

Also in the same raider
4 kabalite trueborn 4 blasters = 108

You can't put 2 different units in one transport. In case you ask, an Archon is an independent character that counts to the unit he is in, for everything except close combat.

Your List lacks one of the most important thing for DE, long range anti tank weaponry.

For 1500 points I would suggest you to take 3 Ravagers or 2 Ravagers and 1 Razorwing. The Heavy Support category is essential for a DE general and should never be left empty at all.

_________________
Once committed, fear not the blade.
Back to top Go down
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 22:28

please qoute me a page number in rulebook to show me i cant take two units in 1 transport...... also i have long range anti tank.... i have four raiders..... thats 4 dark lance and thats also why im carrying alot of blasters im gonna be so close to him turn 1 ill be in range...

_________________
where the darkness is you dare not creep.... for the ginger dark eldar await.... and thats something more terrifying than anything in space Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Also looking to trade 5 build and sprayed helions for 3 Reaver jetbikes PM me if interested. can send photos and would pref the bikes unpainted or just sprayed.
Back to top Go down
SleepyPillow
Kabalite Warrior
SleepyPillow


Posts : 188
Join date : 2012-04-07
Location : Germany

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeThu May 17 2012, 22:45

succorax wrote:
please qoute me a page number in rulebook to show me i cant take two units in 1 transport.

Only got the Softcover Version, page 66.

4 Dark Lances are a joke. Blasters are usually not first turn in range.


_________________
Once committed, fear not the blade.
Back to top Go down
Greenest
Hellion
Greenest


Posts : 35
Join date : 2012-05-15
Location : Delaware, USA

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 04:38

^agreed. The ravagers were one piece that I approved of on your last list.

Also, perhaps it is a bit too much to put two HQs in a 1500 point list. Perhaps you could take out the Duke and the trueborn (since they can't be put in that raider). That would give you enough points for two ravagers, as well as putting another warrior in the duke's place and giving them either a blaster and splinter cannon or another dark lance. If I did my math correctly, that would also leave you at exactly 1500 points, instead of the mildly annoying 1502.

_________________
"I came to bring the pain, hardcore from the brain/Let's go inside my astral plane." - Method Man, Archon of the Wu Tang Kabal.
-1d4chan
Back to top Go down
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 10:38

ok the reason i removed the 2 ravagers is this.... im new to dark eldar and currently i own these
lelith hesperax
3 reavers
5 helions(i proxy them as reavers cause they suck)
1 flying base(reaver proxy again)

2 raiders (1 unbuilt atm)
2 ravagers(1 unbuilt atm)

and some infrantry and tanks from my SM army....

i cant get anything new in till my BD in july as i dont have a job yet..... so i was writing the lists too see what was good and then purchase for birthday,,,, so if you can help me with a list then that would be much appreciated?

and yes i know DE need speed so im trying to work as best i can with what i have..... im considering buying a battleforce would that help in your opinions?

_________________
where the darkness is you dare not creep.... for the ginger dark eldar await.... and thats something more terrifying than anything in space Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Also looking to trade 5 build and sprayed helions for 3 Reaver jetbikes PM me if interested. can send photos and would pref the bikes unpainted or just sprayed.
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge


Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 15:24

get two battleforces, and 1 ravager, then you have a standard 1.5k list

150- Archon w/ Huskblade, Soultrap, Combat Drugs, Shadowfield, Haywire (use Lelith as a stand-in)
223- 9 Wyches w/ Haywires, 1 Shardnet, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfield, Shock Prow
245- 10 Wyches w/ Haywires, 2 Wych Weapons (so your choice), Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfield, Shock Prow
190- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfield, Splinter Racks
190- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfield, Splinter Racks
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfield
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfield
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfield

Total- 1499 pts

_________________
Status:
Usurping Kabal leadership for his Patriarch

Current List:
First 2k GSC List
Back to top Go down
citywidecrayon
Hellion
citywidecrayon


Posts : 64
Join date : 2012-01-05
Location : Birmingham/Lampeter (varies every few months)

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 15:40

A battleforce is a great building block if your funds are limited. My DE army is based around two of them with a bunch of additions made where needed.

As for a list there will be better people than me on here to help you tweak it but i think i know enough to give you a fairly solid foundation

The list i'm presenting below is just combining some of the things you wanted in your original list with some stuff which will work better. I'd run something slightly different to this but not by much

Archon - 150
-Agoniser, phantasm grenade launcher, blast pistol, shadowfield

4 Incubi - 153
- venom w/second splinter cannon

3 blasterborn - 146
- venom w/second SC

3 blasterborn - 146
- venom w/second SC

9 wyches, hekatrix w/agoniser, haywire's - 208
- raider w/FF

9 wyches, hekatrix w/agoniser, haywire's - 208
- raider w/FF

5 kabalites w/blaster - 130
- raider w/FF

5 kabalites w/blaster - 130
- raider w/FF

Ravager w/FF - 115

Ravager w/FF - 115

This isn't necessarily what i'd be running but this will at least give you something semi competetive
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 15:49

Before writing or reading any more lists i recommend you read again rulebook and codex.
Then Thor's article on DE tactics , many questions will go by themself.

Also bear in mind there is massive rule change in next couple of months, so you might be better pain some basic things like Ravager, couple of Raiders/Venoms, Warriors.

In other words - dont buy yourself 2k before edition change, cause good lists and advices on them will change, if not drastically, cause i think we will never go away from idea of massive fleet of death.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica_Part_1
Back to top Go down
succorax
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-14
Location : scotland

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 18:51

ty all for your advice i have to say im liking shadows list very much sooo....

Do we have any idea when the new rules are coming out?

and shadow this one specificly to you....
would it be better to drop 1 wych weapon and take a PGL with the hexatrix in archons sqaud so they can assault through cover fine?


it seems though im probabbly gonna get my two battleforces standard for the troops and bikes...

_________________
where the darkness is you dare not creep.... for the ginger dark eldar await.... and thats something more terrifying than anything in space Twisted Evil Twisted Evil




Also looking to trade 5 build and sprayed helions for 3 Reaver jetbikes PM me if interested. can send photos and would pref the bikes unpainted or just sprayed.
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 18:59

Quote :
get two battleforces, and 1 ravager, then you have a standard 1.5k list
There is no Ravager in the battleforce sadly.

_________________
The Dance of Death begins - embraces, caresses, and kisses,
The Harlequin loves you as you fall over in pieces!
Back to top Go down
Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge


Posts : 2587
Join date : 2011-08-10
Location : Bmore

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeFri May 18 2012, 19:17

Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
get two battleforces, and 1 ravager, then you have a standard 1.5k list
There is no Ravager in the battleforce sadly.

which is why I said get 2 battleforces and 1 Ravager (he says he already has two, as well as the two other raiders he needs for the list)

succorax wrote:
ty all for your advice i have to say im liking shadows list very much sooo....

Do we have any idea when the new rules are coming out?

and shadow this one specificly to you....
would it be better to drop 1 wych weapon and take a PGL with the hexatrix in archons sqaud so they can assault through cover fine?

we dont know when 6th is coming out, as it is all rumors so far, but sources are points to june/july, the same place where storm of magic was last year, and where they always have big book releases.

As for the PGL, wyches dont need it. Both the Archon and Wyches have plasma grenades, which allow them use their Initative when assaulting through cover. All the PGL gives them that they dont have already is defensive grenades, which means when they are charged, the opponent doesnt get the +1 attack for charging. That is why PGLs are 10 points on wyches, and 20 points on everyone else (well, except for Archons, as for some reason Incubi w/ grenades are sooo overpowered...)
Back to top Go down
Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael


Posts : 1857
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Russia

The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitimeSat May 19 2012, 08:37

Quote :
which is why I said get 2 battleforces and 1 Ravager (he says he already has two, as well as the two other raiders he needs for the list)
sorry, my bad.

_________________
The Dance of Death begins - embraces, caresses, and kisses,
The Harlequin loves you as you fall over in pieces!
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





The Black Kabal Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Black Kabal   The Black Kabal I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
The Black Kabal
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» The Kabal of the Black Phoenix
» Kabal of the Black Light
» Kabal of the black heart
» Kabal of the Black Heart
» Az'ysha's Black Sun Kabal

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Army Lists
-
Jump to: