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 How do you use Wyches?

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tlronin
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Deamon
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PostSubject: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeWed May 09 2012, 22:28

I've been playing Dark Eldar for a couple of months and had some success with a Kabal type list (trueborn, warriors, venom, ravagers with some supports form eiher Hellions, Scourges or Reavers). I tried times and times again to put Whyches in my list to tarpit units and give me some room to maneuver. However my Wyches always seem to die without doing anything.

I feel I have to put a Haemy with then to give them FnP othereise they die if their raider blowup while they're inside (this is what usually happens). Here's what I do with mine. I turboboost them fowards if I'm facing a shootiy army like guards or Tau. IF something is coming at me I'll usually turboboost to be in position to assault next turn. It seems my opponents will always manage to blowup the raider, killing a couple of wyches in the procees. Then my Wyches assault...and usually get wiped.

Any adives/tricks on how to use them more efficiently? I usually run 8 wyches with shardnet + 1 Hekatrix with agoniser. All have HWG.
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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeWed May 09 2012, 23:29

How many cc units are you running? If those Wyches are your only assault element I can imagine their Raider being shot down early (I sure as hell would prioritise it); as always redundancy is key...

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MurderingBastard
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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 00:30

I doubt you're doing much wrong. Wyches are generally junk. CC unit that can't hurt anything? Pretty much. Their only use for me is as a dedicated HWG delivery system or to escort an IC who actually does all the killing while they absorb wounds. A real lost opportunity in the codex, if you ask me.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 01:55

MurderingBastard wrote:
I doubt you're doing much wrong. Wyches are generally junk. CC unit that can't hurt anything? Pretty much. Their only use for me is as a dedicated HWG delivery system or to escort an IC who actually does all the killing while they absorb wounds. A real lost opportunity in the codex, if you ask me.

Couldnt disagree more about wyches. Wyches are great in CC vs non elite targets like Tau and Guard, but against MEQ they are a tarpit, meaning they are only meant to hold up your opponent while your shooting gets into position to do its job. Incubi and to a lesser extent Bloodbrides along with Hellions are the hammer type cc units, Incubi for the 3+ and power weapons, BB for the multi wych weapons, and hellions for the overwhelming blob that you can run. Beastmasters may fit in there too, but more for the wound allocation shenanigans that let birds wreck face. At least thats how I use them, and to great effect.

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 07:40

@Deamon:
Have you tried WWP's yet?

Flat-out moves to be in position next turn seems to be a 50% chance of survival against shooty armies. But it also sounds like you have to work with not enough cover in your games? Don't forget you already can claim 4+ coversave after a flatout move. But I'm sure you don't forget that, right? Moving our paper planes around is going from tree to tree basically. Also don't forget it's a S3 hit after blowing up. People tend to claim S4 like closed top vehicles. Uhm... What's more... Oh, don't forget the unit is nót lost if the raider moved flat out in your movement turn and gets immobilised/wrecked/destroyed in your opponents shooting turn (that rule only applies to the movement phase in your turn). These are all the little rules I can come up with right now which could make it easier.

As for the heamy, yeah why not. FnP is always nice on melee units.

I tend to run my wyches with haywire grenades in squads of 10 in raiders with hekatrix and agoniser and they usually see action because my opponents like to get in melee too.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 08:41

I often reserve single assault Raider with Aethersails (Thats either Wyches, or Incubi with Archon). They are more survivable in the middle of the game, when there is far less things to shoot at raider. Depends on Deployment Type.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 11:42

@tlronin
That's exactly what I'm doing but usually here what happens :
1- I move flat out.
2- He manages to destroy the raider
3- Half the squad takes a wound S3 vs T3
4- With FNP, half of then survive so at this points I basically have 5-6 Wyches left.
5- Wyches get shot to death

But you're right, we don't have much cover and almost no blocking terrain where I play.

@Azdrubael
Perhaps this is the solution... I usually deploy them to make good use of their raider's lance. I should try to reserve them... and run 2 squads instead of one.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 14:22

I think you either have to go whole hog with Wyches or not at all. I will usually run 3 squads of Wyches each with a haemocules and each in a raider with perhaps a squad of warriors and 3 squads of blasterborn in venoms. With that many (+combat drugs which are awesome) wyches really deal out the pain.

Most experianced players know that wyches are great in close combat (a bit dependent on combat drugs) and will target them. Therefore FnP and having many of them helps there survivability. Target priority is important to factor in to a DE army because when we get hit we die. Because of this I find that scary units like Blasterborn, Talos etc can really help distract and soak up fire from wyches.

So conclusivly I would say either go big or go home with Wyches.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeThu May 10 2012, 14:54

I play WWP so my experiences are based on that.

I used to run them in a raider in a wwp list and just full reserve them (usually 2 units). Idea being they work together or just slink around the backfield looking for easy prey. They primarily arrive while other units are emerging from the portal and that takes the fire off of them while they are staring down beasts, bikes and talos.

Lately I have been running them on foot in the wwp and have dropped them down to 1 squad. Their role is haywire delivery and charging with other elements coming out of the wwp. I find 1 squad to be enough and 2 squads a little much in a wwp type list - I like my troop choices fast thus opted for more Hellions.

In both situations (on a raider or on foot) they are not used as "hammers".
They have a dual role of charging armor or infantry, whatever is needed at the time they arrive.
On their own they are a tarpit and I do not expect more than that (even against dreadnaughts).
To perform more than a tarpit they will need an IC attached or charge with other wych squads.

I am uncertain in a full rush list but I think you need saturation of some sort, a distraction or just plain cover fire to silence the big guns for a turn. But I suppose that is the trick, isn't it - if we knew how to do that then we all would have a positive answer for you.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you use Wyches?   How do you use Wyches? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 02 2012, 00:59

I use them as tarr pit unites and to soalk up hits before my incubi, and the special HWG delivery. They are very versatile and can work well with almost any list. Ok, not so well in a coven list, but still, very good.
Tarr pit a moderate cc unite until the incu arrive to mop up, massacre the "weapon platform" of the enemy - long fangs, devastators etc. - HWG a dread to death, and can be used to tarpit termies to...for mostly one round, but loseing 120-145 instead of basically anything, that can change the battle, by blowing up a vehicle, butchering the other half of the board - yes, i will gladly sacc 10 gals in order for my archon and the incu to get to the enemy firelines and kill everything, before the termies can react, due to shardnets.

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