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 Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]

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corollax
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 06:25

For no particular reason beyond my own amusement, I've decide to play around with the old Dark Eldar codex. With Thor665 doing his "Old vs. New" unit comparisons, I felt this would be a nice place to post it.

For sake of argument, I'm using it with the various updates, FAQs, and clarifications that GW provided when trying to keep it up to date with 5th Edition. Here's what I came up with. I'm assuming the Nightmare Doll is non-functional in standard deployments, and that the Goblet of Spite affects only allied models.

It's a pretty standard wych cult, with the emphasis being on redundancy and strong anti-tank. The old disintegrators were basically equivalent to plasma cannons, and provide the bulk of my anti-MEQ and anti-TEQ firepower. Haywires were quite a bit more expensive in the old codex, and with the lack of FNP to protect the models, I felt it best to drop them.

If nobody minds taking a trip back through memory lane, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Wink

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 14:13

First off it has been WWWAAAYYY to long since I have actually sat down with my old Codex, so bare with me as I try and remember alot of my stuff. Also I was a Kabal and Coven player way over a Cult player, so this isnt my expertise persay, but Ill give it a whirl.

First thing off the bat is "Why no combat drug despenser on that Dracite? Trust me its worth the points. I dont know how you will fit it in though, but get it. Maybe drop the blasters off of the two HQ retinues so they have an all assault roll as defined.

Secondly if you are going to do Raider squads, give them a blaster over a dark lance. Even if you drop the 5 guys out on their butts and let them sit there, 5 man are very easy to delete off the map (or even just kill the heavy weapon, which at that points since they are elites they are useless) What I would do personally though is just stick to the 100 point 10 man 2 dark lance sniper teams. They are probably the godsend of the old book, and should do just as much as the raider squad you have listed.

now the number 6 seems... interesting... Normally you saw people run them in 7s, as that is just "the perfect number" mathhammer wise. Now what I purpose to you is that you "split" your squads into 2 types. The current "blasterborn" wych units, and 2~3 7 man wych units. That way instead of trying to go all versitile on DE, each wych squad has a defined roll, that is then even further push forward by what drug they get (remember old codex each wych squad rolled to see what their drug was, not a global drug like now)

As for heavies... I dont remember Horrorfex's costing 20 points, so ??? but hopefully you have your codex infront of you. My take on Horrorfex's and Terrorfex's is that the more you had the better. Im not saying drop them, but try them out and see if you like only having them on your Ravagers. (personally when I ran them, I had them everywhere)
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 14:41

@Shadow - back in the day you had to pay for the Dissie, remember? 5 points per pop, plus the Horrorfex.

I strongly disagree with Shadow's opinion of taking out the Blasters from the Wyches - it costs almost nothing to have them and taking them off won't increase their number of attacks in a meaningful way so, why not just have them in case you need to gunboat or something? I say leave them there.

I strongly agree that the Dracite should get a CDD though - it's expensive but it also nearly will double the effectiveness of the unit in assault.

I like 5 man Lance squads in Raiders - they're like cheap stationary Ravagers and serve as excellent objective nabbers through flat out moves late game. 10 man 2 lance squads are good too, but you sacrifice mobility.

I would probably sack a Wych squad to make other Wych squads bigger, I might sack two. Also, are you taking any grenade upgrades?

Finally, I prefer Horrorfexes on Raiders over Ravagers - Ravagers have some inbuilt defense from weapon destroyed results immobilizing them, I'd shift the H.Fexs to your HQ Raiders - they'll be closer to the enemy for range advantage and will also want to avoid being immobilized even more.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 15:02

Oh yah... forgot about paying for Dissies... derp on me...

and blasters where what... 5 points last codex? Still though dont you lose an attack or something for taking it? (I seem to remember them having to replace a CCW with it, but I could be wrong) I will agree on the versitility of having them, but at this point he is either looking at droping some of them, or a wych squad or two to free up enough points to tweak things.

As for the 5 man Raider Lance squads, Its just too easy for people to delete them imho to make them effective. Remember at this point we dont have flickerfields to rely on for some defense, and one explosion and you can say byebye to warrior squad. With the 10 man sniper team, you have 8 bodies that can take a hit before losing effectiveness, and the upgrade of coversaves was a godsend to them. I guess its just I find that consistancy and resiliency is better for me than the option of speed. He does have a ton of raiders around for last minute contests as well, so I dont think he really needs the speed. At this point we are just talking semantics though and its more about playstyle than effectiveness.

That being said a good pickup about not having plasma grenades or wych weapons. looking at the points value I doubt they have them (Although I cant remember Aggies old price, but its got to be around the same it is now.) Maybe you will have to drop a squad or two to get just grenades alone, which are a must.
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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 17:03

Wow, I didn't expect all these responses so quickly. Thanks for all the detailed feedback! In no particular order, here's the rationale behind what I did, relative to what you suggested. If you still disagree, please do say so.

  • Combat Drug Dispenser: I absolutely wanted it, but I was just five points short. From what I understand, the Dracite should inherit the drugs from his retinue, since the combat drug rule talks about it affecting the entire unit. Even if he doesn't, the additional attack or rerolled misses he would get are insignificant next to the succubus's agoniser, which is what I would have to give up to purchase it. (Most of the drugs amount to +1 attack or less, while the succubus gives three for the same price.)

  • Blasters: "Up two two models may be armed with a shredder at +10 pts or a blaster at +5 pts." I'm not sure whether the parlance of 3rd edition meant giving up the extra CCW attack, but even if it did I'd consider it a bargain. With 3e blasters being only 12", it really is essential for all the wych squads to have them lest I be left without anti-tank at the wrong time.

  • Raider Squads: I'd intended to stick the models in cover, outside their vehicle. They won't be especially durable, but for 50 points, I'm okay with that. The raider itself is another darklight weapon, but is more important as a tactical aid, to block enemy LoS to more expensive models. If I can get the enemy to shoot his weapons at an empty vehicle instead, that is 55 points well spent. I pay 5 points more than the 10-man squads, but I feel the tactical flexibility is worth it.

  • Wych Weapons: Every non-retinue squad has them, as does every HQ. As long as at least one model possesses them, the squad should benefit. If this interpretation is incorrect, I will readily add them to my retinues, but I think I get the benefit without doing so.

  • Horrorfexes: Thor, you're absolutely right. This was really a case where I had 15 points left and didn't want to end up with asymmetric units. There was probably something better I could do with them, but I went with the easy solution. I like your idea of putting them on the retinue's Raiders. There's some very nice logic to that. Thanks!

  • Squad sizes: There seems to be some confusion here -- I am running 5 wyches, one of which is a Hekatrix.

    3e wyches cost 20% more and lack FNP. They only have S3 weaponry, and drugs reroll hits instead of wounds. On the other hand, their upgrades are generally much cheaper, and their transports are slightly less expensive. Without the pain token mechanic penalizing me for smaller squads, that really seems the way to go. If I need more punch in CC, I can get that by multi-assaulting. Without the pain token mechanic, the base squad really seems like a tax I pay for agonisers and blasters, and I'm not really keen to pay more for an extra T3 6+ wound.

  • Plasma Grenades: This what I was worried about. I've waffled back and forth on this for ages, but had difficulty fitting them in. I can either buy them for the entire squad at 5 points, for the succubus at 2 points, or leave them out entirely. With 8 squads, that's 40 points I just couldn't find room for.


I'm afraid I may have to drop the Dracite and his Retinue to make the changes you've suggested. I'm reluctant to do this, but particularly in the case of plasma grenades, it may be necessary.


Last edited by corollax on Sat Apr 28 2012, 19:21; edited 5 times in total
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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 17:05

Wyches with Blasters are OP.

That is all. Razz

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corollax
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 17:25

If you think wyches were OP, take a look at Lelith. Very Happy

Here's my revision, per your suggestions. I'm not quite as fond of it, but I think it was a necessary compromise to get plasma grenades on the field. Losing one of my scoring units hurts, but I'm hoping the added combat effectiveness will make up for it.

I chose to keep the Dracite's Retinue, since leaving him as an IC would let him be singled out in CC. If you feel this is a mistake, I can drop Lelith's horrorfex to upgrade it to a proper troop option with wych weapons.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex]   Dark Eldar Wych Cult 2000pts, 3rd Edition [Old Codex] I_icon_minitime

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