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 The Return of The Hellion Deathstar

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kenny3760
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PostSubject: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 21 2012, 11:26

Ok guys, I've got another tournament coming up and after my last outing with an overload of limplight I've decided that it cannot be relied upon in any circumstances. My last list had 22 limplight weapons in it and frequently failed to do bugger all against armour, so it's time for a new(old) approach.


Baron Sathonyx: HQ (105)
Baron Sathonyx

Haemonculus: HQ (170)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun
Haemonculus

Wracks: Troops (30)
3 Wracks

Wyches: Troops (204)
6 Wyches, Shardnet and Impaler, Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix (10), Agoniser (20), Haywire Grenades (2)
Raider, Flickerfield, Shock Prow, Grisly Trophies

Wyches: Troops (199)
6 Wyches, Shardnet and Impaler, Haywire Grenades
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Haywire Grenades
Raider, Flickerfield, Shock Prow

Hellions: Troops (345)
19 Hellions
Helliarch, Splinter Pistol, Agoniser

Beastmasters: Fast Attack (156)
3 Beastmasters, 4 Razorwing Flocks, 5 Khymera

Reaver Jetbikes: Fast Attack (156)
6 Reaver Jetbikes, Heat Lance x 2

Razorwing Jetfighter: Heavy Support (155)
Razorwing Jetfighter, 2 Dark Lances, Twin-linked Splinter Rifle, 4 Monoscythe Missiles, Flickerfield

Ravager: Heavy Support (115)
Ravager, 3 Disintegrators, Flickerfield

Ravager: Heavy Support (115)
Ravager, 3 Dark Lances, Flickerfield

Army Total 1750

So I make that 7 limplights in there and not a venom in sight, madness I here you say, but let me explain further.

Most people on here will know I love old saggypants and his hellion mates more than is healthy, so I went back to them and decided to max it out and base a list round them, so here goes.

Usual stuff with the Baron/Hellion/Heami/wrck PT swap shennanigans.
Initial idea is to get the hellion blob up to FC immediately, this makes them an effective AT, AI unit. Ofcourse it also paints a massive shoot me sign on them, so an easy kill to get them to be fearless will help.

3 wracks will sit back and hide out of LOS ready to grab an objective last turn, the heami from above will join them for a bit of wound allocation manipulation. These guys will almost certainly be going to ground if shot at.

Next up 2 units of wyches with haywire. 2 heamis will give these girls FnP as we don't want them getting killed when they plant those grenades. Raiders have shockprows for a bit of AT after dropping off the wyches.

Reaver jetbikes are there for that must die AT shot. I've found them pretty decent at this task and the AP1/melta effct really helps out

Beast unit is there to distract slightly from the hellion blob. Gives the enemy a cou-ple of units that they really don't want to hit their lines. Wound allocation tricks can keep these guys alive longer than you think. Pretty good AT as well due to the flocks rending rule

Disintegrator ravager, gets an outing to deal with elite/fnp units, can at a push due to the number of shots cause a bit of hurt to armour if it gets a side or rear shot

Razorwing, stock model, reserves shoots it's missiles at something that needs to die and then causes distraction as it becomes a big target for the enemy. I can't believe peole still shoot at this over a 3 lance ravager once the missiles have gone

3 Lance rubbisher, if I could I'd swap the lances out for dissies but I cant so it's in.

What I've tried to do here is spread the AT about a bit and put it in units that have a bit more resilience than the usual blasterborn/ravager formats. So it's a bit different from the normal tournament lists runniing around. I still have 10 AT platforms in there, not all obvious but they are there.
I've tested it against my mates IG Hydra/vendetta/chimera spam list and it actually wrecked more armour than any other DE list I've used, so I'm kind of hopeful about it.

Sorry for the long post
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 21 2012, 18:24

Your list is good and should be effective against most armies. It is also good how you have your tactics all thought out, but for effectiveness have you considered finding room for a squad of five Trueborn?
They do not have to be Blasterborn, but Splinterborn instead. if you have three with Shardcarbines and two with Splinter Cannons then if they are stood still, holding an objective, then they could have a total of twenty one poisoned 4+ shots. Even if they are running they can still fire seventeen. This would make a good supression unit that could, potentially, do alot of damage.

Good luck with the tournament.

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thecactusman17
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 22 2012, 05:16

Boy, I'm not too sure on the value of all those Haemonculae. And your math sounds wrong--I THINK you are saying that two pain tokens will come to the hellions from Haemos, and then ANOTHER two PTs will go to the Wyches the same way. I DO see 4 PT sources in the army thanks to the Wracks, but I'm not sure how you would transfer these over without causing a giant headache that would distract from everybody's assigned roles.

Personally, I rather like your setup, but I would trade at least one haemonculous for full squad size on the Wyches, plus haywire grenades. Smart positioning can result in carefully surrounding transports with one or both squads and killing everything inside--I've killed large numbers of units like this, and often cause models to emergency disembark otherwise, severely cutting down on my opponent's opportunities to retaliate.

But I like your idea and you are absolutely right: Standard Darklances and blasters are not terribly reliable, especially against AV12. However, have you considered Void Ravens as a possible alternative? They can be very effective at cracking heavier tanks and punch through AV12 far more reliably than the standard DLs. Plus, you can equip them with missiles for that delightful anti-infantry drubbing.
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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 23 2012, 12:20

Thanks for the replies guys.

cactusman, the PT swap works by starting the maked heami with the hellions, starting the wracks with the Baron and then joining the baron and hellions in the 1st turn move. Heami's with liquifiers go with the wyches as usual.
The void raven is another single shot take down AT platform, albeit with AV11, which will fall to any concerted attempt and it costs an arm and a leg. The whole list is designed around having AT units that last past 1 turn of being shot at, whilst still having the ability to deal out some pain in HtH.

Cavash, I've never used trueborn as AI, it's certainly something to think about for the future. However this list does not lack the ability to hurt infantry, although it does need to get up close to do it. Thats probably going to be my first turn strategy, move most thing flat out towards a section of the opponents army, try and overwhelm 1 section whilst minimising his ability to strike back.
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 23 2012, 17:03

I was just thinking that in case you come up against a bunch of Terminators then I wouldn't rely on Wyches or Hellions. Massed firepower is much better, i have found.
Against a horde army, though, you will definately do well.

It's just me, I've had bad experiences with Wyches against Power Armour, but i am sure that it was just a bad day for dice rolls.

Anyway, good luck.

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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 23 2012, 18:04

You're feelings are true, it has nothing to do with bad dice rolls.

Wyches aren't meant to tear trough power armor, but you're able to use your "massive firepower" on everything else, while they tarpit a unit or two for some rounds. That's why fnp is so mandatory on them, at least against everything that doesn't instakills them/is a power weapon.

Edit: whops.

Please dont double post. -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-


Last edited by SleepyPillow on Mon Apr 23 2012, 18:06; edited 1 time in total
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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2012, 09:35

Cavash, you make a good and valid point about terminators, thats what the dissie ravager is there for, makes an absolute mess of them.

So I had another run out with this last night and it went pretty well. What I'm finding is that with only 4 skimmers and a razorwing on the board it's a lot easier to hide them and keep them alive. In previous lists with 10 skimmers I was losing something important almost every turn.
Last night on turn 1 I had the ridiculous scenario of my opponent using hydras to gun down the hellions because there were no viable armour targets. Of course with a 3+ save from the barons stealth and FnP the damage inflicted was minimal.

If this goes well at the upcoming tournament I'll think about putting a tactica together on alternative forms of AT.
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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2012, 14:52

I really like your list, it would almost look like one of mine except mine would have had at least a wwp in there.

I am watching with interest how the units are contributing to the overall effort - like the 3 wracks and are they really going to serve a purpose without fail.

Looking at your heavy choices I often like to assign 1 of them to some AI load out just in case however you have 2 units. Granted the Razorwing does have 2 lances I would either run the razorwing and not the 3 dissy and vice versa as just about everything in the list will be competing to deal with AI.

Another item I am watching are the hellions. I run two squads of 10 and simply you have just combined them into one - plenty of multi-charging goodness there, conga line of death by engaging more than 1 target at a time. Plenty of flexibility with this group, anti armor, anti infantry, etc.,

So simply I would be interested in how well the Hellions can start the game by starting on the board - not my cup of tea, the wwp is way too tempting and helpful. Hopefully you play on terrain rich environments as well as the tournaments (which are notoriously bad where I play). Huge footprint, models falling over in terrain, everyone fighting over who gets to charge what, etc.,

Good luck and happy hunting!

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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24 2012, 17:33

Hey Grump Kwi, thanks for the input.

The wracks overall effect is not always obvious, but they always have a part to play. Right from the off they are involved in the PT shenanigans that gets the baron/hellion blob to have FnP and FC from the start. They are also troops so they become an objective sitter along with the naked heami. Now 4 models might not seem much, but careful placement of objectives can mean these guys are out of LoS, and if shot at they will go to ground. The heami adds a small bit of wound allocation nonesense into the mix. If nothing else they require a bit of effort to get rid of 30 points worth of models.

They dissie raider is really there for dealing out hurt to power armour/terminators/elites. Sure splinter fire can take them down but out in the open those guys still get a 3+ save and we need 4's to wound. The dissie swings the odds a bit 3's to wound and no armour save or forcing the inv's right away on terminators. Also good for hunting down light armour, landspeeders hate dissie's as does rear armour of most vehicles.

You summed up the hellions pretty well. Starting them on the board is pretty much essential in this list. Get the 2 PT's and charge forward. D of W makes it all a bit more complicated but still doable. I never envisaged going to the full 20 hellion unit, but with the Baron in tow it's 6 kills before they start to take moral checks, so they are pretty survivable with stealth and FnP to protect them.
I have started running the beasts very close by them to make a massive assault force, usually down 1 flank that must be dealt with before it hits home. Because of cover, FnP, and wound allocation on the beast unit small arms fire will rarely stop this surge. It's pretty funny to see At fire being pumped into these units, allowing the raiders and ravagers an extra turn of survival.

Combined with the reavers zooming straight up and the wyches raiders flying up to drop off thir cargo this is a pretty balls out, pedal to the metal list. Get in their face early and stay there.
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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: The Return of The Hellion Deathstar   The Return of The Hellion Deathstar I_icon_minitimeWed May 02 2012, 12:50

Heres how the army went:
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t2969-rampage-2012-tournament

Overall I'm pretty pleased with it. Had problems with spammed AV 11 and long fangs, but overcame everything else it met.
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