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Ruke
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PostSubject: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 07:58

When you take scissorhands, do they replace your normal CCW? So all my attacks become 3+ poisoned attacks? Or do I get a single 3+ poison attack, and then my attacks with my normal weapons (like if I took a huskblade, for example)?

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 08:05

You would get +1 attack for the splinter pistol As if you were using a power weapon and a pistol or cc weapon. If you took a Huskblade also, you would only be able to use the special profile for one. You also receive the bonus attack for a second close combat weapon if you have a cc weapon or pistol, so you wouldn't receive a bonus attack for having to weapons with special profiles.

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 08:13

Thanks, and I understand that, what confuses me is whether or not the scissorhands is considered a replacement CCW, or just grants an extra 3+ poisoned attack.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 08:21

Don't have the codex in front of me and can't remember if it replaces a close combat weapon(I believe it does), but the scissorhand acts like a poisoned weapon(this can be combined with the splinter pistol) to make ALL of the CC attacks poisoned attacks that wound on a 3+. The scissorhand grants +1 attack on its own, or can be combined with a splinter pistol or other close combat weapon to give you +2 attacks (1 for the scissorhand special rule, +1 for having an extra pistol/CCW)

In other words, it's pretty sweet Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 08:24

It does not replace an existing weapon

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 08:40

blah blah blah "it is a poisoned weapon (3+) that grants +1 attack. Note that this can be combined with an additional ccw for a total of +2 attacks"

So, if I use a scissorhands and a huskblade on a homun, can I end up getting 4 attacks that insta kill? or 3 that insta kill and 1 that wounds on a 3+?

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 11:43

Short answer: No!

Medium answer: Look at page 42 in the Rulebook. It explaines different weapons and possible combinations.

Long answer: Two weapons can be combined to get a bonus attack. If one is a special close combat weapon, then all attacks have the special ability. If you use some special ccws, that DE don't have, like Thunderhammers or powerfists, you get only +1 Attack if you use a second similar weapon, which is of course an option for all weapons.
If you use two different special ccws you can never combine their abilities, but must decide which one you use this round.

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 14:59

Like Tiri Rana says, You have to choose which special weapon you are using if you have more than 1 special weapon. The Scissorhands is a special weapon (3+ poison and +1 attack) The Huskblade is a special weapon as well (that ID with a sucessful wound) So no, you dont get both bonuses. You have to choose which bonus you will use each combat.

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 17:51

The confusion appears to stem from "close combat weapon" "additional close combat weapon" "special close combat weapon" "replace a close combat weapon (in an attack routine)" "replace a close combat weapon (for what wargear you're taking" all sort of being jumbled and mixed up (plus, arcane wargear doesn't replace a built-in close combat weapon in your wargear AAAHHHH). Here's the breakdown:

1. Haemy that has bought nothing- 3 attacks (from his vanilla weapon and his pistol)
2. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade- 3 attacks that ID
3. Haemy that has bought a Scizzorhand- 4 attacks that wound on 3+
4. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade and a Scizzorhand- Pick to use Option 2 or Option 3 each round of combat


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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 19:11

well, if you have a scissorhands, technically you can do option 1 as well since you didnt replace your regular CCW, but who would want to do that Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 19:30

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
well, if you have a scissorhands, technically you can do option 1 as well since you didnt replace your regular CCW, but who would want to do that Very Happy

MORE CONFUSION AAA-ctually there is a situation: if you wanted to remain locked in a close combat for a round, you could decrease your attacks and chance to wound. But outside of that scenario AAAHHHH!

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 18 2012, 20:35

Quote :
1. Haemy that has bought nothing- 3 attacks (from his vanilla weapon and his pistol)
2. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade- 3 attacks that ID
3. Haemy that has bought a Scizzorhand- 4 attacks that wound on 3+
4. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade and a Scizzorhand- Pick to use Option 2 or Option 3 each round of combat


Precisely what I was looking for. Thanks for the help!

Where I was getting mixed up was that scissorhands doesn't replace a ccw, like the other options, and the way it's worded in the codex makes it seem as though its just a straight up additional 3+ poison attack, regardless of your other attacks...

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 19 2012, 20:29

Here is another question on scissorhand:

The Aberration with a scissorhand and ccw has 6 attacks, 7 on the charge. If it charges a rhino can it use 7 attacks from the ccw?

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 19 2012, 21:12

yes you can Grumpy, but you will have to wait for me to get home to show you page rules

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 19 2012, 22:49

No, actually you can't, but don't fret, it's not as bad as it sounds.

If you wanted to use the aberations ccw, you had to not use the Scissorhand, leaving you with 5 attacks on the charge. That is, because you obviously can't use some of the special rules of an item (+1 attack) but not some other (poison) and you even can't use the Scissorhand as a secondary weapon, because the BRB clearly states, that all attacks made with a special and a normal ccw have to use the special ccw's bonuses and penalties, no choice here.

BRB FAQ p.1 wrote:
Page 42 – ‘A normal and a special weapon’, first
paragraph. The second sentence should be changed to:
All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the
special weapon’s bonuses and penalties.

But you can, of course, use the Scissorhands 7 attacks to charge the Rihno. Why wouldn't you want to? I know, it's a common missconception, that poisoned weapons don't affect vehicles, but they do.
Poisoned ccws confer no advantage against vehicles, but can still be used at normal strength.

BRB p.42 wrote:
Poisoned weapons
Poisoned weapons range from blades coated in venom
to hypodermic claws. [...]
These weapons confer no advantage against vehicles.

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 20 2012, 00:39

So, I can use the scissorhands 7 attacks at strength 7 (Str.5 + furious charge + Urien's master haem bonus) and hit rear armor?

If so, I never thought of it that way - nice!

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 20 2012, 03:12

Quote :
So, I can use the scissorhands 7 attacks at strength 7 (Str.5 + furious charge + Urien's master haem bonus) and hit rear armor?

Sounds legit... FAQ it!

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 20 2012, 15:27

@Tiri Rana wrote:
No, actually you can't, but don't fret, it's not as bad as it sounds.

If you wanted to use the aberations ccw, you had to not use the Scissorhand, leaving you with 5 attacks on the charge. That is, because you obviously can't use some of the special rules of an item (+1 attack) but not some other (poison) and you even can't use the Scissorhand as a secondary weapon, because the BRB clearly states, that all attacks made with a special and a normal ccw have to use the special ccw's bonuses and penalties, no choice here.

BRB FAQ p.1 wrote:
Page 42 – ‘A normal and a special weapon’, first
paragraph. The second sentence should be changed to:
All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the
special weapon’s bonuses and penalties.

But you can, of course, use the Scissorhands 7 attacks to charge the Rihno. Why wouldn't you want to? I know, it's a common missconception, that poisoned weapons don't affect vehicles, but they do.
Poisoned ccws confer no advantage against vehicles, but can still be used at normal strength.

BRB p.42 wrote:
Poisoned weapons
Poisoned weapons range from blades coated in venom
to hypodermic claws. [...]
These weapons confer no advantage against vehicles.

I like how you started with no you cant, but then yes you can Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 20 2012, 16:51

@Grumpy Kwi wrote:
So, I can use the scissorhands 7 attacks at strength 7 (Str.5 + furious charge + Urien's master haem bonus) and hit rear armor?

Yep Smile.
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 01 2012, 23:22

@CaptainBalroga wrote:
The confusion appears to stem from "close combat weapon" "additional close combat weapon" "special close combat weapon" "replace a close combat weapon (in an attack routine)" "replace a close combat weapon (for what wargear you're taking" all sort of being jumbled and mixed up (plus, arcane wargear doesn't replace a built-in close combat weapon in your wargear AAAHHHH). Here's the breakdown:

1. Haemy that has bought nothing- 3 attacks (from his vanilla weapon and his pistol)
2. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade- 3 attacks that ID
3. Haemy that has bought a Scizzorhand- 4 attacks that wound on 3+
4. Haemy that has bought a Huskblade and a Scizzorhand- Pick to use Option 2 or Option 3 each round of combat


This almost perfectly answered my question ... but I do wonder if "option 1" above is supposed to be 2 attacks as a Haemy is or 3 as the ancient is. The way I read the Scissorhands is that it gives+1, or +2 with another CC weapon taken ... so to me it makes sense that option 1 should have stated 2 and the rest is correct. If that is incorrect however when would a player get the +2 attacks as in the weapon description?

Thanks from a new Dark Eldar player, and also a new 40k player...
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 02 2012, 00:56

The list you quoted is correct. The Haemy has 2 attacks in his profile, but his basic equipment (close combat weapon & splinter pistol) grants +1 attack. If he uses a Scissorhands he gets an additional +1, adding up to +2 or 4 attacks.

If you have two or more one handed close combat weapons you always get +1 attack, unless the weapon you are using as main weapon has the Specialist Weapon special rule.
But if you have two or more special close combat weapons, meaning weapons that confer special rules, you have to decide which weapon's rules you want to use each turn, so you can only use the Scissorhands bonus attack, if you use all and only it's special rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 02 2012, 01:32

@Tiri Rana wrote:
The list you quoted is correct. The Haemy has 2 attacks in his profile, but his basic equipment (close combat weapon & splinter pistol) grants +1 attack. If he uses a Scissorhands he gets an additional +1, adding up to +2 or 4 attacks.

If you have two or more one handed close combat weapons you always get +1 attack, unless the weapon you are using as main weapon has the Specialist Weapon special rule.
But if you have two or more special close combat weapons, meaning weapons that confer special rules, you have to use which weapon's rules you want to use each turn, so you can only use the Scissorhands bonus attack, if you use all and only it's special rules.

Ah, my confusion came in when looking at attacks and not figuring in the fact that he would get a +1 by default because of the two weapons he had by default. That makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification...
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 02 2012, 14:45

The problem is that this rule question is from last edition, when just having 2 special weapons ment you couldnt gain the +1 Attack bonus from having two special weapons. Now there is a rule for that (specialist weapon)

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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 02 2012, 15:44

@Tiri Rana wrote:
The list you quoted is correct. The Haemy has 2 attacks in his profile, but his basic equipment (close combat weapon & splinter pistol) grants +1 attack. If he uses a Scissorhands he gets an additional +1, adding up to +2 or 4 attacks.

If you have two or more one handed close combat weapons you always get +1 attack, unless the weapon you are using as main weapon has the Specialist Weapon special rule.
But if you have two or more special close combat weapons, meaning weapons that confer special rules, you have to decide which weapon's rules you want to use each turn, so you can only use the Scissorhands bonus attack, if you use all and only it's special rules.

So for a group of wyches, they would have not 1 attack each as their profile states but rather 2 each because they have CCWs and Splinter Pistols as part of their equipment? I just wanted to be sure but given your explanation I am fairly confident that is correct.

Thanks and sorry for the seemingly simple questions. I look forward to my first game here in the next few days!
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PostSubject: Re: Scissorhands Query   Scissorhands Query I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 02 2012, 15:45

Yes. Extra attacks for having 2 weapons are not usually included in a models profile unless specifically stated. So Wyches have 1 attack on their profile but will usually have at least 2 attacks due to the extra weapon.

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