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 Wyche cult wwp army

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MasterofPuppets
Hellion
MasterofPuppets

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PostSubject: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 16 2012, 21:54

Anyone running a wych cult army list with wwp delivery systems to get in close? I'm thinking about running one with a pain engine thrown in the mix for nastiness. Thoughts or ideas?
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Ruke
Wych
Ruke

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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 16 2012, 22:40

I just switched up my WWP list to go with wyches/bloodbrides instead of beastmen and helions, so I'll let you know how that turns out. Talos are crap against mobs or walkers unless you can lock them into combat first (so the talos doesn't get pounded on the assault), so just keep that in mind.

If you're going to go with wyches out of a portal, just make sure to go with large/max squads, so that you can take a wound or two on the way to whatever you're going to assault...

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Thor665
Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 16 2012, 22:49

I run a Wyche heavy WWP list.

The rough outline is as thus;

Baron Sathypants w. Beastmasters

2x Haems w. WWP

3x Trueblasters in Raiders

1x Warriors w. Blaster in Raider
4x Wych squads

1x Ravager
2x Talos

I see no reason not to run 10 man Wych squads out of portals. Talos work great and help support the anti-vehicle tech. I start the vehicles on the board and they hunt transports, the goal being to have stuff dumped out so my Wyches and Beastmasters can assault it. Sathypants is important to help assure first turn which is quite vital to WWP lists. The Warrior squad is there to protect me from DoW deployments so I can still get a portal in deep early on if I need to.

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Ruke
Wych
Ruke

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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 16 2012, 23:26

10 man instead of 12 or 13 at least? I've heard lots of people who say the opposite. What makes you ok with only running 10s?

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 00:41

10 serves the purpose.

The core killing components of a Wyche squad are;

The Aggie.
The Haywire Grenades.
Weight of mass attacks.

More Wyches doesn't get you another Aggie.
More Wyches can get you more HWGs - but I don't think that 15 grenades is going to deal with something 10 grenades can't. If 10 can't do it - probably I shouldn't be tossing Wyches at it anyway.
Finally you just have the weight of attacks - and I feel 9 Wyches gives m all I really need. Yeah, it will be more hurt - but is it valuable more hurt?

Let's consider some other thoughts;

Clogged deployment from WWP - I've had 3 Wych Squads and a Beastmaster unit and a Talos all roll out in one turn - even with two portals (and likely one portal being optimal) that can cause some real congestion around your deployment zones. Do I really want to have to wrangle around with extra models that maybe aren't helping me but will prevent me managing to place units within charge range?

Diminishing returns - on the charge (without drugs) a Wych is worth .16 dead Marines...whoo-friggin'-hoo. Yes, I want the Wyches in there to help me hurt stuff, but I need to understand how much value I'm getting out of them. At 12 points a pop (and if anyone successfully runs tournament WWP without HWGs I'll be fascinated to see some batreps) you really have to ask yourself what those points are doing for you. If I were to add even 2 Wyches to each squad (netting myself the value of 1.33 dead marines) I would have spent almost 100 points doing it...I believe I have a better use for 100 points than that.

What's killing these Wyches? In h2h combat Wyches, even without FNP, are a pain to kill. They are Hit on 4+, Wounded on 3+ Saves on 4+ versus pretty much everything in the game - that's not an easy unit to kill. What does kill them is shooting - and shooting kills them *super effectively*. So I don't need bodies to survive assault, and it won't matter if I have extra bodies to survive shooting - again, leading me not to bother.

Also, remember that the ultimate goal with Wyches in WWP is to have them pop out of the portal and straight into assault - so the real purpose of the bodies is to give you enough Wyches to come out, assault and kill something (get a Pain Token, huzzah!) and then still have enough bodies left to assault/claim afterwards. I find 10 does that fine as, usually, you're looking at about 7 Wyches left after they gut some pansy minimized Marine squad or dual/triple assault some actual threat. 7 FNP Wyches ready to go is a solid threat, and I don't need the extra bodies at that point because I'll still have the bulk of my killing potential.

That's my rational.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 00:47

Fair enough... I might change up my WWP list a bit more... what about 9 wyches per squad? if I cut it back to 9 (from 13) I should have enough points to net a full extra squad...

edit: nope... but I did get agos, where I had power weapons previously...

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 01:13

I'm not claiming 10 as an obvious optimal number, it's just where I currently believe it's optimal. If large squads work for you that's great, I'm only pointing out that smaller squads can work.

A shift from 13 to 9 is a big one, I'd certainly advocate some test games to help you understand the difference in hitting power and survivability before you tried anything too competitive with it as that will alter the list quite dramatically.

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 08:09

Yeah I run Wyches 10 strong in WWP lists aswell. If you are worried about getting shot up before you get into CC with them, then you are doing it wrong. Smile

Attach a heami with an aggie for the double aggie's and the free PT.

Thor is a brave man however, his list seems to be low on AT from the get go to pop the mushy stuff out of the tin cans. Might be mistaken. I would feel more safe with an additional blasterborn unit or a ravager. Then again, my bad dice rolls are legendary.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 11:04

Hey Thor, whats the optimum number for raider mounted wyches?
I cant find a reason to run full 10 man(woman...ermm...elf) squad, i just get the feeling that all of those girls are escorting agoniser powerwise.

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MasterofPuppets
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 13:18

No parasite engines coming out of the wwp? I would think that the template and large blast would be helpful and not to mention granting pain tokens to squads. I'm surprised by the lack of Grotesques or wracks for the delivery, that's what I'm thinking for my squads to drop the wwp.

Raider 1
Haemie w/ WWP
6 wracks

Raider 2
Haemie w/ WWP
3 Grotesques.


Thor- Why is the Baron a must for WWP armies?
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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: Wyche cult wwp army   Wyche cult wwp army I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 17 2012, 14:45

@Azdrubael wrote:
Hey Thor, whats the optimum number for raider mounted wyches?

I found 8 total to be optimum. I did ran 6 but thought it too thin but was with a total of 2 wych squads in the list, if you are going to do the "surround and drown" ideology 6 would be fine if you can run more wyches total than you would running 8.

I like the warriors as the wwp deployers - it would seem to be in character to use the non-wych as cannon-fodder wwp deployers.

I do not like the wracks as wwp deployers in a list like this, I can accept reluctantly there might be Haemonculi in a "Cult" list but I would try to keep the wracks out despite them being the best wwp troop escorts in the codex.

I love the thread and the theme - seeing how "Cult" you guys can keep it.

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