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 Wait, so why don't people use Lelith

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 08:22

I'll put it simply: for her points cost, she isnt worth it for me, and she doesnt have that gear i would use for an HQ.
No Drugs? Well meh, i can live with that, but nothing to boost her s3 attacks exc. 2 PT?! And for only one round of charging?!? No ma'am!

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 08:28

She 'negates amoursaves'. So, she doesn't use AP, she simply negates. I use her in a squad of Wyches often with succes. The trick it not to throw her into the most expansive HQ your opponent has, but into large blobs of scoring troops the opponent wanted to use to hold objectives. Wink

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W'fo
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 08:36

@tlronin wrote:
She 'negates amoursaves'. So, she doesn't use AP, she simply negates. I use her in a squad of Wyches often with succes. The trick it not to throw her into the most expansive HQ your opponent has, but into large blobs of scoring troops the opponent wanted to use to hold objectives. Wink
She's great against nids imho. Neutral

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 08:40

@W'fo wrote:
@tlronin wrote:
She 'negates amoursaves'. So, she doesn't use AP, she simply negates. I use her in a squad of Wyches often with succes. The trick it not to throw her into the most expansive HQ your opponent has, but into large blobs of scoring troops the opponent wanted to use to hold objectives. Wink
She's great against nids imho. Neutral

Agreed. She eats them for breakfast.

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 08:42

@tlronin wrote:
@W'fo wrote:
@tlronin wrote:
She 'negates amoursaves'. So, she doesn't use AP, she simply negates. I use her in a squad of Wyches often with succes. The trick it not to throw her into the most expansive HQ your opponent has, but into large blobs of scoring troops the opponent wanted to use to hold objectives. Wink
She's great against nids imho. Neutral

Agreed. She eats them for breakfast.
mmmm....spicy lol!

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 12:30

I still like the fact her rule "Peircing blade" i think thats the name - says Leliths attacks ignore armour saves...

So in combat, no saves.

Throw a BS9 grenade - no saves

Shoot a quad gun at BS9 - no saves

hehehe

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Crimson Dom
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 17:35

Quote :
I still like the fact her rule "Peircing blade" i think thats the name - says Leliths attacks ignore armour saves...

So in combat, no saves.

Throw a BS9 grenade - no saves

Shoot a quad gun at BS9 - no saves

hehehe

I've just looked through the FAQ for this and there is nothing to say that you're wrong; they've re-worded Drazhar and Lady Malys (among others). It seems a little wrong to have her ignore armour saves with grenades and quadguns.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 17:40

the penetrating blade...and yes, it says her attacks. Why cant she have a plinter cannon and relentless? Sad

about that: warp spider power blades? They ignore AS aswell...and it confers +1A aswell...maybe they got a little bit better now.

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Starstrider
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 18:21

Sadly I wouldn't count on Warp Spider Exarchs ignoring armour saves with their powerblades. I quote: "Powerblades: Powerblades are twin-power weapons fitted to the forearms, enabling the wearer to use both hands freely. Powerblades confer +1 A and ignore armour saves." Now, this could be argued both ways all day long as they are described as power weapons, with an additional special rule therefore making them AP 3 but it then goes on to say they ignore armour saves. You must also bare in mind this was written when all power weapons ignored armour saves so is a bit dated.

Likewise, Lelith ignoring armour saves could be interpreted both ways; applying only to combat or to both combat and shooting. The wording is rather vague and although I believe RAI is for it to only count in combat, RAW it could be argued either way.

I think some FAQs are needed here... where are those FAQs anyway? Rolling Eyes
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30 2012, 18:40

@Star: yes, it says its a PW, with PW being described in the RB as ignoring armor, but this, as you said, has a bonus written in to it.
So it is AP3 and ignores AS ^^ why argue what is the dominant, when we can all live in harmony, and say, it has bot? Smile - meh to much my little pony friendship is magic today... XD

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W'fo
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 03:26

@Enfernux wrote:
@Star: yes, it says its a PW, with PW being described in the RB as ignoring armor, but this, as you said, has a bonus written in to it.
So it is AP3 and ignores AS ^^ why argue what is the dominant, when we can all live in harmony, and say, it has bot? Smile - meh to much my little pony friendship is magic today... XD
Amen Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 04:16

I saw some light at the end of the tunnel for Lilith when I noticed a Farseer could make her invisible, but really, it only gave another 3 or 4 hits in most cases and 1 wound at best. Maybe if they follow through with the codex updating FAQs giving her hatred, or preferred enemy would help her allot.
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 06:16

@xzandrate wrote:
I saw some light at the end of the tunnel for Lilith when I noticed a Farseer could make her invisible, but really, it only gave another 3 or 4 hits in most cases and 1 wound at best. Maybe if they follow through with the codex updating FAQs giving her hatred, or preferred enemy would help her allot.
I thought eldar couldn't use powers on dark eldar?

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 07:15

@W'fo: eldar arent abe to use codex: eldar powers on dark eldar, nothing is said about BRB powers Wink

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W'fo
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 07:58

@Enfernux wrote:
@W'fo: eldar arent abe to use codex: eldar powers on dark eldar, nothing is said about BRB powers Wink
Oooo this will make my battle brother very Shocked and Razz Very Happy Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 19:33

i'm just not one for special characters, I like the model though, both old and new, and use the old for a succubus. but the actual character stats? not really that interested
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 20:16

aside from her bonus attacks and her ignoring armor, there isnt much to her really. My zlinger boyz would make short work of any wytch or bb squad she is with

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 20:21

Personally, the model is ugly, I don't run Wyches often and when I do I prefer an Archon or a Succubus to lead them.
Her stat line is nice, and the ignoring armour factor is lovely, but she has no place in my army.

Enf: If you are letting her and her squad get shot at by a full unit of Boys then I would say that she isn't being utilised properly.
I'd at least want the boys to be knocked down in numbers by some sort of weapon fire and I'd want the Wyches to at least be in close cover.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 20:56

Cav, im saying, that my zlinger boyz - aka archon w dual blasters, sf, djinn, 4blasterborn, dracon, blastol, pgl, vb, haem liqui scisor - make short work of her fluff squad. This is DE vs DE Very Happy

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 23:46

Okay, well I obviously didn't understand it. I have never heard the term 'zlinger' before as I would usually expect it to be ' 'slinger' and using a z at the end of 'boys' makes it sound very Orky.
My apologies.

Even in that situation, however, that is just two units facing each other, not taking into account the rest of the battle. If you have not even attempted to find cover for the squad, assuming it is on foot, or not fired at the Trueborn with something with some more substantial firepower before charging Wyches into a Lance heavy squad you are a foolish tactician.

I don't think that I'd ever let my Wyches get into a situation where they would not be supported by another squad. I'd at least fly Reavers over-head and Blade Vane them or use Hellions to steal away the Archon.
Then, on the other hand, I'm sure that the tactician with the Trueborn would not leave them in a position for that to happen.

I do not think that a squad can be judged purely against something else. An army is the sum of its parts and shouldn't be determined by a single squad, so I would think it foolish to just say that one squad would annihilate the other, as in a real battle there are supporting elements.

Lelith and her fluff squad would be better in some situations than the Trueborn yet the Trueborn would be better in other situations.

Seeing as squads can't duel each other I do not see that as a valid point. (If you get my point, I don’t feel very coherent today).


Also, Enfernux, could you please call me Cavash? I am not fond of being called 'Cav', it's just a personal preference. Thanks.

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W'fo
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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 03:41

@Enfernux wrote:
Cav, im saying, that my zlinger boyz - aka archon w dual blasters, sf, djinn, 4blasterborn, dracon, blastol, pgl, vb, haem liqui scisor - make short work of her fluff squad. This is DE vs DE Very Happy
wait if the archon has two blasters he/she can use both? o.O does gunsliner allow that?

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PostSubject: Re: Wait, so why don't people use Lelith    Wait, so why don't people use Lelith  - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 08:15

gunslinger allows two pistols to be shot in the shooting phase - two separate peace of wargear, not the same two times Very Happy

ok Cav...ash XD to say gunslinger squad would be two not my style. "Zlinger" boyz may sound orky, but said right: zlinga' boyz and with the right tone of voice and accent, it sounds very beau-ish...or like some hotshot duelist in the westernt times...meh, its all good ^^

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