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 The Serpents Bite.

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Marquis Vaulkhere
Kabalite Warrior
Marquis Vaulkhere

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Location : Commorragh

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PostSubject: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 24 2012, 19:24

So while trying to fit a second troops choice into my army I came up with the idea of replacing my one squad of wyches in a raider with two smaller units in my venom's and putting my true-born squads in the raider with the duke. I armed all of my true-born with shard carbines and splinter rifles so that they could all benefit from the dukes 3+ poison. Then the smaller units of wyches are made stronger by hekatrixes with poison blades and the x2 chance of getting a great combat drug.

To make up for my lost AT I switched my Razor-Wing with the Void-Raven as to get more splinter born I had to drop a few blasters. In this list I have 3 heat lances, 2 haywire blasters, 7 dark lances and 2 void lace as well as the void mine. I know that's not a standard level of AT but in my local meta I hardly face tanks.

I was going to test this last game night but I got distracted with trying to play Salamanders {Wolves Dex} and Orks so I did not get a chance but today I will give it a try.

Is this combo an effective use of the dukes powers or should I just stick with an Archon with WWP for my fast movers?

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Ruke
Wych
Ruke

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 24 2012, 20:40

I don't think that shard carbines are affected since it says "splinter weapons". I think a Dakka venom with 2 splinter cannon trueborn would work better, since youre looking at 20 3+ poison shots on a 6" move (since I think his ability would affect a dedicated transport...)

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Marquis Vaulkhere
Kabalite Warrior
Marquis Vaulkhere

Posts : 207
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Location : Commorragh

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 24 2012, 22:49

On page 58 of the Dark Eldar codex in the armory it has shard carbines listed under "Splinter Weapons" so I am assuming they are counted; hope so at least.

Also in the duke's entry it states that one unit of True-born or Kabalite Warriors may have there splinter weapons upgraded to poison 3+. I do not think that the rule carry's over to the transport they are in and even if it did I would be sacrificing three shots by going in a venom. I could save some points but lose another lance AND need to purchase another venom.

That is how I read & understood the rules but I will leave it up to greater minds than my own to determine.

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Darkgreen Pirate
Sybarite
Darkgreen Pirate

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 24 2012, 23:31

@Marquis Vaulkhere wrote:
On page 58 of the Dark Eldar codex in the armory it has shard carbines listed under "Splinter Weapons" so I am assuming they are counted; hope so at least.

Also in the duke's entry it states that one unit of True-born or Kabalite Warriors may have there splinter weapons upgraded to poison 3+. I do not think that the rule carry's over to the transport they are in and even if it did I would be sacrificing three shots by going in a venom. I could save some points but lose another lance AND need to purchase another venom.

That is how I read & understood the rules but I will leave it up to greater minds than my own to determine.

Far be it from me to assume a greater cerebral capacity, but I read it as you read it MV, the Dukes entry specifically states splinter weapons, and all 4 (pistol, rifle,carbine,cannon) come under the heading of splinter weapons. The only singling out of specifics are splinter racks (pistols and rifles).

It also states his unit, so I would assume that means the troop/elite choice he is deployed with and not their vehicle. 7 shardcarbines and 2 Splintercannons with the Duke in a raider is some devestating AI. He can run off an assault on his own (yay shadowfield!) but even termies fear the unit, thats a lot of saves to make.

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Massaen
Klaivex
Massaen

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 06:30

When i run the duke, which is alot lately, i prioritise what i want from him. He has 3 abilities and you need to utilise 1 alot, 1 some and 1 a little as a minimum

For me - the DS ability is the gold - its a 5pt upgrade per vehicle for free but its better than the upgrade. So i utilise DS heavily

In second place is the poison boost - i run 9 warriors, 1 blaster in a raider - its still 16 splinter shots at 12" and can benefit from splinter racks - works well andis cheap and scoring.

In last place is the drugs double roll - he is the only model i presently run with them so i don;t even think about it most of the time - this wil change as i add cult units.

Just my take on it

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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 16:08

I think that there are many DE abilities that need that extra bump to be really good. The Duke is that bump. Combat drugs are ok ~ getting the choice of two is great. 4+ Poison is good~ 3+ poison is great. I really try to capitalize on the bonuses he adds to make the most of him. I take big squads of wyches, for example. I agree with Massaen, Take 9 warriors in a raider with splinter racks. I'd probably take a splinter cannon rather than the blaster (do one thing and do it very well). 18 3+ poison (& 4-6 4+ shots) shots with re-rolls... nice.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 18:17

splinter racks don't benefit the cannon and can only be taken at 10 models... hence the blaster!

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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 18:23

@ Massaen~ Yes. You're right. I have often wished raiders could take 12 models...
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Marquis Vaulkhere
Kabalite Warrior
Marquis Vaulkhere

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 18:39

I run him with True-born because of the extra range provided by the Shard-carbines {24" on the move} and I like to put as many points as possible into my Heavy, Elites and Fast selection of my army. I only take troops because they are mandatory. In my group we end up playing A LOT of annihilation and when we do end up with objectives I find that I have enough fire power to win by annihilating or slay all of his troops leaving me to claim objectives with my wyches.

Also I Abhor Rapid fire weapons.

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Skari
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 25 2012, 19:11

My next journey into the Dark Eldar will invove the Duke(first leg was baron, for one year, now its archon+heamies, till november). So I am very excited to hear about any experiences people might have had with him.


I have often wondered about the trueborn with carbines, or the reg warrior unit with splinter racks as his retinue, and then as many wyches, reavers and hellions as possible to make use of the double drug roll.


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Jack_The_Ripper
Slave
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 26 2012, 21:15

I've never really considered using the Duke for a unit of trueborn with splinter weaps...I mostly just use mine as a buffer to wyches and allowing all vehicles to Deepstrike, which leaves the added poison as the last (most unused) buff to me.

But now, I've got to try this. Also, where do people get the idea that he upgrades the vehicle's poison gun??? I see no clarification at that whatsoever so I'm kind of stumped...But for 233 points, that unit of 9 splinter trueborn (Poisonborn as I call them now) is actually not too bad at all.
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Skari
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 01:36

I was just thinking about this, but giving the trueborn carbines also means that if you use deepstrike then you can aim to land 18" away from the enemy and still shoot while being relatively safe from retaliation... where as with rifles you would have to get in too close for comfort.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 02:38

I think poisonborn are to expensive for what they do. Basic warriors in a raider with racks works very well!

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Marquis Vaulkhere
Kabalite Warrior
Marquis Vaulkhere

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 07:44

Splinter-born are pricey but I think that they are far more devastating than 9-10 splinter rifles. Dark Eldar are about speed and I rely on assault3 to crush my opponents. In the last game I played against Templar's, IG and Eldar I used the unit of Splinter-born to crush a wraith lord, crusader squad and many veteran guardsmen spread across a 14' board in an apocalypse game. Like I have stated I abhor rapid fire because you need to either move into assault range or sit still; neither are options for my army; I live fast at 18".

I LOVE the dukes ability to roll 2D6 for combat drugs; what are some of your favorite drug buffs?

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Massaen
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Massaen

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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 10:48

IMO for most of the army, reroll to wound or pain tokens are the best... And getting one if these is good odds

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Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 14:13

personally when I run duke, I run him with 4 trueborn w/ 2 splinter cannons, 2 carbines in a venom. For 143 points (sans duke) you get 14~18 3+ poison shots, and 12 4+ poison shots. Its really cheap for its huge damage output, and not really enough points to be considered a huge target (like Ive seen people who run 9 TB w duke... which gets shot out of the sky every time it hits the board)

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 14:40

I suppose the other thing that puts me off the splinterborn is the fact is costs you a blaster or lance unit

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: The Serpents Bite.   The Serpents Bite. I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 27 2012, 15:49

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
personally when I run duke, I run him with 4 trueborn w/ 2 splinter cannons, 2 carbines in a venom. For 143 points (sans duke) you get 14~18 3+ poison shots, and 12 4+ poison shots. Its really cheap for its huge damage output, and not really enough points to be considered a huge target (like Ive seen people who run 9 TB w duke... which gets shot out of the sky every time it hits the board)

I run this too, and it always does well. The benefit for me is that the venom is a small model that can easily grab cover and its packing two splinter cannons. Plus he's not scoring so doesn't have to stay near objectives and is somewhat expendable as a result.

I also run 4 wych squads and sometimes reavers so the drug boost is useful to get an early FNP or the golden re-roll wounds.

Deep strike is nice to land 4 blastor-born behind something annoying, but honstly don't use it that often.


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