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 Are Blasterborn fluffy?

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 16:41

Let's start with the facts: The most common Trueborn build is 3/4 Trueborn with Blasters in choice of transport followed by 3 Trueborn with two Dark Lances with or without transport and then the alternate build as Duke's retinue with Splinter Cannons and Shardcarbines.

You never see Shredders, you never see Splinter Pistol and CCW. Nobody takes a Dracon.

Do you envisage this as being fluffy? Noble trueborn kitted out with anti tank and sent deep into enemy lines as suicide squads, taken only to destroy a tank or two before they are killed?

I like to consider myself a fluffy player yet my latest lists use these as my Elites choices - simply because they are good, this is why people take them.

But from a background perspective, is this wrong?

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 16:58

Personally I see no problem fluff wise at all. If you consider what they are. The only reason they are above the warriors is due to nobility, which if you think about it in Commorrragh means next to nothing other than you get some extra toys. Also the Trueborn are trying to impress their Archon and try to win favoritism, so you would think they would constantly want to "lead the charge" and "take the initiative". That way they can worm their way into a higher position and possibly get close enough to kill their Archon and take his position. Ofc most of these "ambious" younglings problably find themselves dead after one too many battles, but atleast it does make sense for them to go flying up trying to pop tanks all whilly nilly like.

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 17:17

Its as fluffy as five long fangs with missile launchers. Legal but feels a bit off and unrealistic, so I see where your coming from. I wouldnt say its wrong, but like most spam builds it's not quite the full fluffy monty.

I agree with shadows revenge, that Archgons would use creative ways to remove threats to their power. Against heavy mech you would probably see the elites kitted out to do the job, so blasters would be issued i'm sure.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 17:21

I'm going to sit on the fence with this one, I can see that as shadows revenge says above, they'd be wanting the glory of popping tanks etc, but that sounds quite honest and upfront to me for the DE, I'd be more likely to consider that they'd be trying to find some way of getting noticed without being a suicide unit. I must admit, I'd tend to see them more as a bodyguard type unit for an archon fluff-wise. You could go with 4 with blasters and an archon with a blaster in a venom?

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 18:19

you also have to remember these are young upstarts. They have almost nothing to themselves other than their "trueborn" status. They still need to make a name for themselves to even stand a chance of being seen in the Court of the Archon. You can kinda like it to say... Knight's Errant in Bretonnia. They do the stupid stuff they do because they are trying to prove themselves in battle and be seen as a true knight and worthy of his title. Also for their improved statline you can look at it like they recieved extra training they because of their trueborn status (hence the extra attack) and are foolhardy (hence the extra leadership). I just think that is a different way of looking at why they are where they are instead of "a squad of sargeants".
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 21 2012, 19:18

The codex says the Trueborn often carry heavy weapons, ostensively to better protect their Archon, but in practice because they like blowing stuff up. So a group of Trueborn raining unholy destruction upon their enemies with massed darklight fire is perfectly fluffy. Using them as suicide units is less so, though. Fluffvise they're supposed to escort the Archon to battle.

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 22 2012, 07:58

I can understand Trueborn wanting to make a name for themselves, and so putting themselves at more risk, but there's a difference between "more risk" and "dropping into the exposed centre of the enemy army, in view of every single gun they have".

Remember, they make a name for themselves if they succeed, but they lose status if they die (if they even get brought back, that is). So, I can see them being used in a tank-hunting role, but not too risky.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 06 2012, 16:24

"Trueborn delight in dramatic displays of firepower, sending punishing fusillades into the enemy's armoured columns and leaving pillars of foul-smelling black smoke in their place." - The Kabalite Warrior + Trueborn profile page.

Mr. Kelly knew what he was doing when he allowed Trueborn to have that many blasters, it was clear that they would be given them as it's a good idea which I believe he planned for.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 07 2012, 14:16

Well, again, the problem isn't with how they're equipped, but rather the suicidal role they're given. It makes perfect sense for Trueborn to have that level of firepower, it makes no sense fluffwise for the Trueborn to throw themselves into situations where they're almost certainly going to be killed.
Sure, there's the possibility that they can be regrown later, but that's placing their fate at the whim of others, who are entirely likely to simply save that favour with the Haemonculi for later, and leave the dead Trueborn as they are.

Put simply, no Dark Eldar would willingly kill themselves, either directly, or indirectly (like by throwing themselves in the middle of numerous enemy tanks). Their entire society is based around escaping death. There is absolutely no reason why upper-class Kabalites would suddenly turn around and willingly place themselves in a position to be killed so easily.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 07 2012, 16:54

That's based purely upon how you choose to use them. If your Blasterborn are thrown into the middle of a bunch of tanks, kill one then die, you aren't using them very well. That's down to the player, there is absolutely no reason to treat Blasterborn as a suicide attack squad, unlike melta squads they have 18" range, which is plenty.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 07 2012, 17:46

They are fluffy- as long as you can find/make up a backstory to justify the obligatory min/max Elite squad that nearly every codex contains by GW Razz Honestly, are you really worried about fluff when you you field 3 squads of 3-man Blasterborn in Venoms?

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 07 2012, 18:30

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
3 squads of 3-man Blasterborn in Venoms

Did the 4th guy fall off the back on the way there?

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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 07 2012, 19:16

@Anggul wrote:
@Evil Space Elves wrote:
3 squads of 3-man Blasterborn in Venoms

Did the 4th guy fall off the back on the way there?
Well played sir, well played Razz

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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2012, 07:38

@Anggul wrote:
@Evil Space Elves wrote:
3 squads of 3-man Blasterborn in Venoms

Did the 4th guy fall off the back on the way there?

Nah, he hit a bug on the ride in. Our armour is nothing compared to the wrath of space-bees.

Also, I was commenting on the use of them described in the OP, being as a suicide squad. I have no problem whatsoever with them being used as tank-hunters, and it's one thing they'd probably enjoy. I can't, however, ever see them being used as a suicide squad, at least not without some incredibly, incredibly strong "persuasion" (ie blackmail, extortion, etc).

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 09 2012, 23:47

@Aroshamash wrote:
@Anggul wrote:
@Evil Space Elves wrote:
3 squads of 3-man Blasterborn in Venoms

Did the 4th guy fall off the back on the way there?

Nah, he hit a bug on the ride in. Our armour is nothing compared to the wrath of space-bees.

Also, I was commenting on the use of them described in the OP, being as a suicide squad. I have no problem whatsoever with them being used as tank-hunters, and it's one thing they'd probably enjoy. I can't, however, ever see them being used as a suicide squad, at least not without some incredibly, incredibly strong "persuasion" (ie blackmail, extortion, etc).

Fair enough, I suppose that's just how OP uses them. I can understand seeing Fire Dragons that way as they have very short range, but 18" is enough that there is very rarely any need for them to be suicidal unless you really, really want to hit a tank far into their lines, in which case you just have the dark lances in your army do it.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28 2012, 06:14

IMO I think they are an "elite" sort of warrior, slightly better at everything than your average Kabalite. They have the "fluff" as the elitist kill squad type/bodyguard for the Archon. I think that they are great for bodyguard detail with a Venom, but equally suited to taking out armour if required. The idea of kamikazing them just doesnt sit well. One of these days I would like to take a full squad and see what kinda hurting they can lay down, fully kitted out. The points cost is making me cringe though/
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 05 2012, 20:48

I kind of see them as deeply ignorant and victory-certain upper class. Like the kind of bad guy that is too cocky and sure of his own superiority to even consider the chance of failure.
While escaping death is a major virtue in the Dark city, being daring and destrucive is almost always more prized.

Also I'm pretty sure that any Archon worth his salt have no problem sending his spoiled trueborn brats to certain death if it means that he won't get hit by that Demolisher cannon later on.
Besides, thinning out the competition is great when you are on top. (and you can always resurrect them if you get second thoughts)


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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 06 2012, 07:25

The problem with that though is that if you're sending your underlings to True Death without a second thought, you can probably expect the same to happen to you very soon.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 06 2012, 18:48

@Aroshamash wrote:
The problem with that though is that if you're sending your underlings to True Death without a second thought, you can probably expect the same to happen to you very soon.

That's pretty much what being an Archon is all about.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 02:51

My point is though that an Archon will get overthrown within a week if he casually hurls his Kabal at any and all threats in front of him, just to make himself a little safer. He'll end up with no new recruits, no allies, and those Kabalites who still do serve him 3 seconds away from pushing a knife through his heart, having already bought off the Haemonculus who's supposed to bring him back to life.

Yes, the Archons get rid of their competition etc etc, they just have to do it in a much more subtle way than "go suicidally rush against the enemy tank formations". If they can be persuaded to do so, then sure, but no Dark Eldar would ever risk True Death, and would loathe beyond imagining an Archon that routinely puts them in great danger of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Are Blasterborn fluffy?   Are Blasterborn fluffy? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 10:36

@Aroshamash wrote:
My point is though that an Archon will get overthrown within a week if he casually hurls his Kabal at any and all threats in front of him, just to make himself a little safer. He'll end up with no new recruits, no allies, and those Kabalites who still do serve him 3 seconds away from pushing a knife through his heart, having already bought off the Haemonculus who's supposed to bring him back to life.

Yes, the Archons get rid of their competition etc etc, they just have to do it in a much more subtle way than "go suicidally rush against the enemy tank formations". If they can be persuaded to do so, then sure, but no Dark Eldar would ever risk True Death, and would loathe beyond imagining an Archon that routinely puts them in great danger of it.

Oh yes, but then I don't see why anyone would ever play them suicidally anyway. There's no need to play them suicidally to make them work, they have a Venom and 18" range, that's plenty of space to keep them out of too much trouble. Sort of a moot point really, you're right that it would be silly for an Archon to do it, so we wouldn't, it's tactically a bad move to treat them as a suicide squad.

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