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 Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 13:00

I was throwing around some tactics using the Dukes low orbit raid, which involved units disembarking.

Now, the low orbit raid rules say that all venoms, raiders and ravagers in a list with the Duke have the option to deepstrike. It doesn't state that units can or cannot disembark.

While the upgrade for non Duke raiders and venoms is retrofire jets, which does state that units cannot disembark.

How do you guys see this? That low orbit raid does allow units to disembark after deepstrike?

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 13:20

Yes, they can indeed. On page 95 in the rulebook, it states that deepstriking models may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deepstriking vehicle.

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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 13:23

@Levitas wrote:
That low orbit raid does allow units to disembark after deepstrike?

Bingo!

Low orbit raid says we follow the rules for deepstriking per the rule book - the rule book allows passengers to disembark after deepstriking.

Retrofire jets have a different rule which doesn't allow us to disembark - low orbit raid doesn't mention retrofire jets anywhere in its rules.

This line of reasoning would convince anyone, even the most skeptical and "minimalistic" players (like myself) that it was on purpose and GW wanted us to disembark if we used the Duke.

Disembarking with the Duke is "Grumpy" approved.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 14:33

yup. So if you ever want to buy retro fire jets, it might be cheaper and better to look towards duke for some DS love

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 15:05

Nice. That's what I was thinking, thanks for clearing that up guys. Its not top of my most useful tactics, but handy against certain builds so nice to know we have it.

Side point, but It's odd that you cant disembark with retrofire jets. Why on earth would you ever pay the points for them.

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 15:38

@Levitas wrote:
. Side point, but It's odd that you cant disembark with retrofire jets. Why on earth would you ever pay the points for them.

Agreed. Its also odd that you can't move 12" and fire from an open-topped vehicle, but can disembark and do so, I would pay 5 points to stay on board and shoot.....10 even, but I digress...

They really seem like an afterthought, like Phil said "hey Matt, what are you doing with all this deep striking/teleport shenanigans?" and Matt said, "HAH! you silly xenos won't be the fastest anymore!" So Phil said "really? Retro fire jets! I'll show him!" And then Matt whined and they added that suspicious sentence to the end of the paragraph regarding retrofire jets.

Or more likely, it is just another in a long line of not well thought out rules. Maybe there will be a change in 6th?

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 16:28

The question is, why would you disembark after deepstriking? any time I deepstrike, its so i can assault with a unit that normally wouldnt be able to assault next turn (because it wouldn't be in range). The only units I would deepstrike for other reasons have that rule built in (namely scourges)... DL and cannons have 36" range, so no reason to deep strike those, wyches are gonna want to move 12" jump out, run and charge, so no reason to deepstrike those either. Scourges and hellions come standard with it and every other unit cant take a veh... WWP would be much more effective than deepstriking since units can move out of it, shoot or run, and assault all the same turn...

Quote :
Or more likely, it is just another in a long line of not well thought out rules.

Probably...

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 16:34

to me its simply shows a change in DS rules. If you believe in leaked documents and fairy tales... They have said that you can assault after DS in the next edition. That being said buying 5 pts for an assault boat that will hopefully land, charge out of, and slaughter said unit would be kinda unfair. Atleast by having to pick duke, they will know it is coming.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 17:56

@Ruke wrote:
The question is, why would you disembark after deepstriking? any time I deepstrike, its so i can assault with a unit that normally wouldnt be able to assault next turn (because it wouldn't be in range). The only units I would deepstrike for other reasons have that rule built in (namely scourges)... DL and cannons have 36" range, so no reason to deep strike those, wyches are gonna want to move 12" jump out, run and charge, so no reason to deepstrike those either. Scourges and hellions come standard with it and every other unit cant take a veh... WWP would be much more effective than deepstriking since units can move out of it, shoot or run, and assault all the same turn...
You disembark after DSing with shooting units so you can shoot. I find the idea of DSing to wait a turn to assault to be a lot odder than that.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t1443-2000-rtt-duke-sliscus-deep-strike-razorwing-build-very-pic-heavy

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Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 19:29

@Ruke wrote:
The question is, why would you disembark after deepstriking? any time I deepstrike, its so i can assault with a unit that normally wouldnt be able to assault next turn (because it wouldn't be in range). The only units I would deepstrike for other reasons have that rule built in (namely scourges)... DL and cannons have 36" range, so no reason to deep strike those, wyches are gonna want to move 12" jump out, run and charge, so no reason to deepstrike those either. Scourges and hellions come standard with it and every other unit cant take a veh... WWP would be much more effective than deepstriking since units can move out of it, shoot or run, and assault all the same turn...

Quote :
Or more likely, it is just another in a long line of not well thought out rules.

Probably...

Deepstriking venoms with blaster born to combat grey knight dreads who have 48" range. 4 blasters to the rear armor comes in handy. It's not perfect, but its nice to have that option, specially in the middle of a tournament when you face something unexpected.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 13 2012, 22:52

Quote :
Deepstriking venoms with blaster born to combat grey knight dreads who have 48" range. 4 blasters to the rear armor comes in handy. It's not perfect, but its nice to have that option, specially in the middle of a tournament when you face something unexpected.

In that case, i think you're better off using scourges though... they're more survivable out in the open, and in the end will cost you less points overall for what you get, since in order to be able to deepstrike and shoot you have to take the duke. They also have more options. If you're like me and only take groups of 3 BB in a dakkavenom, you can only snag 5 scourges and drop 1 blaster and it will cost less points, as well.

In my experience, deepstriking units don't last long at all, if you deepstrike a venom they may get off a round of shooting before they get popped, since if you deepstrike you're gonna have to be out in the open... no veh to save em... gross

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 19 2012, 00:06

On another note, the leaked FAQ says that the low orbit raid will be nerfed into giving all vehicles free retrofire jets, make of that what you will while eating a tablespoon of salt.

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MrBrokenAzs
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 19 2012, 00:15

If deep striking counts as moving at cruising speed for vehicles, doesnt that need since open top vehicles can move 12 inches disembark and have its units assault, than could you attack from the deep strike vehicle?
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid   Retro Fire Jets and Dukes Low Orbit Raid I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 19 2012, 04:43

no, as the vehicle deepstriked, passangers are considered deepstriking as well, so you cant assault. Its the same thing as say... a drop pod. No assaulting for our poor wyches Razz

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