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xerxeshavelock
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PostSubject: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue May 31 2011, 23:29

(cute title huh?)

So I've heard of people taking a Haemonculous to give Wyches a Pain Token, then leaving them without the token so they can use their fleet. But is it worth 30 points to take 3 Wracks, start the game with a character and let the character shoot off with the token leaving you with 3 Wracks mooching about? This is assuming you either have the spare Elite slot, or have a Haemy somewhere else in the army.

Has anyone here done it? Did it just give a free KP to the enemy, or did the Wrack unit somehow save the day?
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Venkh
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue May 31 2011, 23:53

I have seen this done to get extra tokens onto helions.

Something like this.

Haemo starts with helions, baron starts with wracks.

Turn 1 haemo leaves helions leaving his token behind.

Baron leaves wracks and takes their token with him.

Baron joins helions and the unit now has 2 pain tokens.

Cue disgusting furiously charging FNP 3+ cover saving cloud of ultimate death
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01 2011, 00:06

/\
This. Cute. Not Razz

It have only one drawback - if I'm correct you must move with speed of slowest models (foot ones), even if IC leaves unit. But otherwise it's nasty.

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 05:33

@Local_Ork wrote:
It have only one drawback - if I'm correct you must move with speed of slowest models (foot ones), even if IC leaves unit.
Correct.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 05 2011, 05:50

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that one! NICE Twisted Evil

I would put FNP on another unit before putting FC on the Hellions though.

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Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 06 2011, 14:42

I've done this with my Archon, quite often since the new codex has come out. I find it's only useful, if you take a unit or Wracks large enough to be effective on their own. I particularly like to drop a unit of Wracks with a Hexrifle on an objective, while my Archon joins some Incubi/Wyches/Warriors and continues the attack.
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GreySeerZ
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 15:10

I've actually been throwing this around in other forums:

Wracks (3): Acothyst, Hexrifle
Haemonculus: Hexrifle
Archon: Agoniser, Combat Drugs, PGL, Shadowfield

Now the idea would be that Archon starts with wracks, haemonculus (hexrifle) starts with incubi/wyches in Venom/Raider. Both units are within 6" of eachother, so haemonculus joins wracks, leaving his paint token on incubi/wyches, and Archon moves to incubi/wyches, taking the wracks pain token. Now you have Incubi/wyches + killy Archon with FC and FnP. You also have a 5 wound T 4 squad hopefully (if you play it right) sitting on an objective, in cover, with 2 hexrifles to still maybe do some damage and snipe some ICs. With more points you can always buff that wrack squad up a bit to camp objectives better, but 2x hexrifles should cause at least some damage throughout the game. I know the lord and his uber retinue will at least.
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xerxeshavelock
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 17:29

Could be worth a go - are hex rifles worth taking?
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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 18:00

At their core, they are a sniper rifle. Which can be good, but require a decent roll.
The two benefits the hexrifles have are they are assault 1 instead of heavy, and the chance to remove any multi-wound models hit.

I often put them on my webway carrier, since I know he will generally be 1 round out of position.
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Liberame
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 18:15

I hadn't thought about this, but I think I now have a consistent way of always giving Lady Hesperax and her seductive companions FC...

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agosyb
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 04:42

I don't know if this has been brought up as a rules query already, but can you pull pain token shenanigans with lady Malys' pregonisant rule? For example deploy a haemi with a hellion unit, thus giving the unit a pain token, then redeploying the haemi elsewhere and leaving the pain token on the hellions?
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 04:44

I wouldn't see why not.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 05:13

Not sure if attached IC and squad does not count as one for deployment purposes (ie you can't decide to unjoin IC on turn 2+ in reserves etc).

Better to ask your opponent first.

but IMHO yes, you can.

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vharing
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 06:34

I wonder why I have never thought of doing this to get a pain token on my mandrakes.

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Liberame
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 07:42

I don't think you could do the pain token shuffle with Maly's precog simply because IC's can only attach and detach during the movement phase, and deployment isn't the movement phase as units aren't actually moving me thinks...

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 07:47

Except you can attach ICs during deployment. I.e., Vect's in this raider with Incubi.
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Liberame
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 15:51

Yeah, I had a lapse in good judgement due to lack of sleep. For some reason yes I dreamed of this question and wished to retract my statement as soon as I woke up.

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 21:47

I think it would come down to if redeploying counts as leaving.

I'd be inclined to say that all the tokens stay with their original units because it is still considered deployment.

But I like the outside the box thinking Very Happy
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Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH!
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 23:29

@xerxeshavelock wrote:
Could be worth a go - are hex rifles worth taking?
Depends. Do you use your Haemies as WWP carriers and then as sacrificial tarpits to protect the rest of your army? Then a Hexrifle is an obvious waste of points. Same if you use Haemonculus as cheap FNP for combat units.

Do you use a unit of Warriors to occupy Objectives while firing away with long range weapons like Dark Lances and/or Splinter Cannon? Then a Haemy with Hexrifle makes them better at both roles, and well worth the points.
Hexrifles work equally well with Acidrain Trueborn for similar reasons.

Wracks with Hexrifles are more uncertain. It seems counter intuitive to give a gun to the leader of a close combat unit, but the Hexrifle actually fits well with the targets Wacks seem made for (MCs and Ogryn equivalents). However, simply for fluff reasons, I'd keep the Hexrifles in the hands of Haemonculus.

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agosyb
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PostSubject: Re: Off the Wrack...   Off the Wrack... I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 23:49

A couple of hexrifle wounds can really annoy thunderwolves/nob bikers/bloodcrushers. Those are made for those 2 wound models that count on wounds, toughness, and numbers as opposed to armor saves. If you see a lot of those, by all means bring hexrifles. I did stasis a lone wolf once, much to the chagrin of my opponent. Coven armies certainly are unpredictable for your opponent, I wonder what kind of mental gymnastics "this may instant death you" puts people through.

Back on the Malys thing, you can get an arguably better archon for her points bracket. Even with the trick and the psychic defense she may not be worth it. That and I don't like fielding the archon of a different cabal, background-wise.
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