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 First attempt 1.5k

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Fatuous
Hellion
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PostSubject: First attempt 1.5k   First attempt 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 12:35

After waiting for what seemed like for ever to get a new dex, it has taken me about this long to get something together I'm happy with, soooo many options to choose from.

This builds on a 500 point combat patrol list that I've been enjoying, building up to 1.5k. Not as optimised as it could be, as there are several units I have, which I'd like to use.

Disclaimer, you may find the lack of Ravengers distressing.............

HQ:

Archon, Blaster, Djinn blade, Combat drugs, shadow field, haywire grenades
Haemie, liquifier gun, venom blade
Haemie, liquifier gun, venom blade

Elites:

6 Blood brides, Leader with agoniser. Haywire grenades, 2 shardnet/impaler.
Raider, dark lance, night shield

Troops:

7 Wyches, leader, power weapon, shardnet/impaler, haywire greandes.
Raider, dark lance, night shield

10 Warriors, blaster, dark lance, leader, venom blade.
Raider, flicker field

5 Wracks, leader, scissor hand, liquifier gun
Venom, extra splinter cannon.

Fast:
6 Reavers, 2 heat lances, Leader, venom blade

5 Scourges, 2 hay wire blasters, leader, venom blade

Heavy:

Razor wing jet fighter
Flicker field

I've dropped a few upgrades, etc to get the leaders on the fast attack slots. Maybe not really required, and I'm still tempted to split the reavers in to 2 pure anti tank hunter squads with a heat lance or blaster each. As I have some other dark light weapons, I think the AP1 might proove useful. The scourges I want to try out, and think with their range, they should be able to hang back quite well, hopefully immolbilise or stun tanks for auto hits with hay wire nades, and then join CCs later game to sinw them my way if needed. Not 100% sure how they'll work out, but do want to try them.

My archon has taken a bit of thinking about and still not 100% sold......... quite tempted to go clone field and ghost plate, as with the shardnets, she should be pretty untargetable in CC......... but with the Djinn blade, not sure I want to risk auto hitting myself with out a decent inv save.

haemies go with the bloodbrides and wyches, archon with the blood brides as well.

Only real swop outs I'm considering is to drop the blood brides for regular wyches, or cut their number in half, so they fit in a venom.......

Thoughts? Criticisms???

Thanks

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LordOfRuin
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LordOfRuin


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PostSubject: Re: First attempt 1.5k   First attempt 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 14:35

I've also recently started up a DE army and the advise I've been given on scourges and Reavers is this... Why bother wasting 10 points on the unit leaders when you are fielding them as ranged specialist units? Why use up 10 pts for an extra ATK +LD when chances are they wont need them? This is of course before any additional upgrades and the points can be used else where. I believe the general rule of thumb is to not bother with these upgrades on fast attack choices unless they are going to get stuck in CC.

I like the way you have your Haemonculi set up but have you thought about using Scissor Hands on them instead of Venom blades? Yeah they are 10pts more and the poison is slightly worse BUT them extra attacks can really help you overcome the averages and land some wounds. A normal Haemonculus will end up with 2 attacks + 1 for extra wep/spinter pistol, +1 for scissor hand and 1 for charging (if he assaults) so he basiacally doubles his attack value on the charge, combine that with his Pain Token and hes gonna soak up some wounds not to mention send out his fair share as well.

I'd also say Your Archon doesn't really need a blaster especially if ur putting him with the bloodbrides/wyches, if he fires it then they cant fleet and an Archon is at his choppiest when mowing down peeps up close n personal.

If your planning on putting your warriors in a raider id drop the dark lance in the squad seeing as the raider wont be able to move if you want to fire the lance with the squad and the hull mounted one. I feel there is also a fairly low ammount of AT power in the army, perhaps it might be worth ditching the wracks and venom for a Ravager + Flickerfields for 115 pts, I dunno, worth a play test either way.

By trimming down on these points you should be able to upgrade other units or models like your Archon + Haemys or add more members to your existing units. At least that's how I'd go about it. Basically no massive or major changes but a few tweaks here and there and I'd be worried about facing that army!

Hope I've given you some ideas to think about anyways, good luck with your list! Smile

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Fatuous
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PostSubject: Re: First attempt 1.5k   First attempt 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 16:02

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed review Very Happy It really helps.

I had to cut a few things, so have ended up with a few bits that prob do need a bit more thought in to them.

Form my experiences so far, which are fairly limited, I have been using warrior blaster squads in a venom, but find they can't get stuck in on T1 with out disembarking, something I kinda want to avoid. I had that full 10 man unit on foot originally, so ended up combining in to that squad.

I deffo do see the point on the Dark Lance and movement restrictions. The plan for that unit is to sit back for the first turns, so utilises 2 DLs (one form the squad, one from the transport), before moving up if needed, where they can still use the blaster, and be able to add in cc if required. Maybe I should look to split and have 2 warrior blaster squads in venoms (as I do want to get my other venom in the list too). I'll deffo have to think about that.

The archon blaster, yep I deffo see it, but there is something in side that really wants a high BS blaster. It's why she gets the Djinn blade too, so doesn't lose any attacks, so can charge in with 8 Very Happy So should still be a beast in CC (but at ST3, I'm just hoping the combat drugs do enough to supplement). It's mostly for options, well...... no, it is partially for options, mostly for the rule of cool...........

Which leads on to squad leaders.

Yep, I'm deffo paying out 45 odd points on squad leader upgrades, that I prob don't need. The main reason is cosmetic, I've made some nice models that I really want to be able to use, which mandates squad leaders........... vanity I guess, and likely to be the first things to go during play testing, but for now, I kinda want to keep them. The reaver leader only got upgraded by ditching the splinter cannon on the Razorwing, so those points could well be spent better.

There is a less comsmetic reason too tho. Certainly on the scourges. They have half decent armour, and plasma nades, and assualt weapons..... so while made more for range, they should be able to knock a chunk out a unit with their guns, and have the ability to help out any other CCs that are either not going my way, or I need to end quicker. The same logic applies to the reavers. I do not really want them in CC, they should be using blade vanes, or slagging armour with their heat lances (I still haven't ruled out blasters tho). But the added ability to add to CC is useful, and if your paying the leader upgrade costs a venom blade seemed a reasonable addition. You're probably right tho, it's throwing away good points after bad. I could add another unit if I shaved points.

Neither reavers or scourges want to be hit back (nothing likes getting hit back, but they won't survive like FnP wyches). This is doable in the way I intend to use them, it's a trick I use with my Imperial Guard counter assualt command squads. You throw them in to CC the turn after it all kicks off. Then for that turn, they can not be targeted. That is the plan for them really. Early game, tank hunt, or for the scourges, sit back a bit and suppress armour, before later game, moving closer for carbine shots and ending protracted combats. The idea being that their presence ends that CC, so everyone can move on.

Haemie war gear. TBH if I drop squad leaders, etc.... I'll prob ditch some of their wargear too and go for another troop unit with transport. I do love the scissor hand wargear, and have included it on the wrack leader. The Haemies are kinda lucky to even get their venom blades Very Happy their whole purpose is for the pain token, and then either sit in the now empty transport and go flamer units, or get out as well if fleet isn't needed, and put St6 and 7 hits on to them, so that they don't negate FnP on the wyche units. I kinda want a scatter shard in there too, and don't really like having them with the same wargear, but the liquifiers are a must, anything else is just a bonus. In CC, they have no inv save, and are targetable........ and the wyches should be able to carry the day.

I should prob try to include a ravenger, and anti tank could deffo be a problem. There is a lot of mech in my meta. It's why I've added haywire grenades, and why the scourges have haywire blasters............ anti armour in CC is kinda last resort, but I've had some success with it so far.

Again thanks for all your suggestions. I've put the reasoning why I went that way, but will have another think, as I'm sure if I cut small upgrades out, I could prob turn that warrior raider in to 2 warrior blaster squads in venoms....... the wracks can then take a raider and every unit contains some form of anti tank.

1 last thought on scourges........ I brought the boxes, and immediately built 2 with splinter cannons thinking how awesome it would be. Now I've totally gone off the idea Sad If moving your paying a lot of points for 1 extra shot each al tho the range is better.......... but a basic squad, with no upgrades is pretty tempting as they pack a lot of shots on their own for reletively cheap. I've gone the half way route of the haywire blasters, which I have no idea how well they'll work.
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LordOfRuin
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PostSubject: Re: First attempt 1.5k   First attempt 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 16:18

I'm happy to help where I can (if at all!) and you certainly seem to have put a lot of thought into your list. I'd agree that your Scourge squad with Splinter Cannons is a good idea, if they do infact manage to take any casualties you can remove the shardcarbine models and still get loads more shots with the cannons without being a detrement to the squards fire power however the Haywire Blasters are the best way forward imho. This is because they are great tank supressors and due to their Str 4 they are also fairly cabable at AI in the event you cant target any vehicles.

Another thing is if you NEED to move them you can do so during the assault phase as they are jump infantry. The best thing to try is to get a friend round your who has a day to kill and a versatile army of his own then just play test all your ideas and options to see which if any works for you.

I've done this so many times with my mates Nid army I know their rules better than the DE but it really helps you get a feel for how each character or unit works and gives you a better idea on how your army can run. More experience = more knowledge and knowledge = power!

Hopefully some of the more experienced players will comment on your list and perhaps cover any other ideas or stratergies that I didn't think of. I've got my 2k army list up on the forum if you want to take a look at how I've done my army list. Perhaps it may give you some inspiration Very Happy

Heres the link

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t2425-new-de-player-help-needed-please

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Fatuous
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PostSubject: Re: First attempt 1.5k   First attempt 1.5k I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 18:05

I've been plotting DE for far too long now, and as the models are slowly getting painted up, have to start actually planning a full list to build and paint too. Has been useful, thanks. Is strange, I'm breaking all my own rules that I never would in my other armies. taking toys over more bodies!!!!! What am I thinking Very Happy

Like you say, till I get em on the table, hard to tell how they'll work, but think will but a min toys, max bodies version of the same list up and see what takes my fancy Very Happy

had a look at ur list too, added a comment on that thread, but your archon needs more toys! ;P

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