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 Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 12 2012, 19:05

Twas just something I was contemplating when thinking of different spins on competitive lists.

What's your ideas on a list that involves three Razorwings with choice of missile, disintergrators and splinter cannons. They provide all the anti infantry fire you should need while your elites are Blasterborn in raiders, warriors with blasters in raiders? No need for venoms as the amount of AI the (obviously reserving) Razorwings provide should be sufficient while there'd be 27 darklight shots from the rest of the army. Add HQ and Fast attack to taste.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 12 2012, 19:14

Works fine - use some assault tools or work in about 2-3 Venoms anyway though (at least that's my experience with the mix)

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 12 2012, 19:30

Have you tried it Thor? Still thinking of making that competitive list and look at different angles at it and/or ways of fitting Sliscus in.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 12 2012, 21:07

I would go with Lanceborn, just to provide MORE long ranged AT.
You pretty much need way to open tanks (plural) on first turn. Maybe Lance Scourges too.

Also, as long as Razorwings live I wouldn't go close, for same reason I wouldn't field foot Terminators and Vindicators Razz Short range and scatters don't mix.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 13 2012, 05:23

His suggestion of 9 lances on 9 platforms (plus Blasters have a strike range of 33" even without the rotate trick/cheat - so odds are you get at least one of those into play turn 1) is not far removed from a list with 3 Ravagers (9 lances on 3 platforms) plus maybe a few assorted extra Raiders.

Overall it's a very similar amount of shots being fired, and arguably a better number of targets being fired upon.

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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 15 2012, 05:33

I myself am trying Razorwings over Ravagers these days:

Pros:

- Line of Sight not much of a hindrance - meaning you can hit what you want generally
- Massive offensive output in 1 turn apiece
- 36" Flat Out = Surviving Jets in the end-game are always a threat to contest enemy objectives
- Flexible weapon layout opportunities, even with a simple Splinter Cannon, a Razorwing is a dual threat far above that a Ravager can ever do
- Can dent multiple squads/vehicles at once with scattering blasts and even "fun placement" of Lances on main vehicle target, while hoping for blasts to scatter off said vehicles into nearby, disembarked or otherwise, infantry
- The Jet/Bomber isn't Open-Topped!

Cons:

- Line of Sight: Both a boon and a drawback, you can see clearly, but also generally be seen clearly back
- You lose a Dark Lance in the case of a Ravager
- You're lighter armoured, so have to either bank on first turn for certain (or be able to hide 'em somehow) Or arrive from Reserves (Not a bad idea save for army presence on the table until these appear

So far they've been a blast for me, the firepower they put out for the +70-100 pt price tag is well worth it because even Ravagers die quick in the modern meta where I play (and judge to play against anyway with Autocannons/Missile Launchers being EVERYWHERE.

Anything troubling you about them?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 15 2012, 10:27

I go 2 razorwing and a void raven. The raven opens the vehicle and the razors destry the contents.

I have found the ravager underwhelming compared to this...

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 15:50

I like the Razorwing on paper, and have witness their power at whiping a squad off the face of a map many a time, that being said I think the list has to be written around the fact that you are taking 3 Razorwings. You are taking a tank that is super effective against infantry... well guess what... so is the rest of our army. So you now have to make the rest of the list amazing against tanks. Its not hard persay, as all you really need is raiders instead of venoms, and alot of blasters and dark lances in other areas, but it is to me the complete opposite way of my army, and would require me to by 8 more raiders :/ (although I wish I didnt have all my old tanks stolen, as I would totally do it Razz )

But yah Sky your looking at something like this

150- Duke
131- 3 Trueborn w/ 2 Splinter Cannons; Venom w/ Extra Cannon, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
145- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Nightshields
162- 6 Reavers w/ 2 Blasters
162- 6 Reavers w/ 2 Blasters
175- Razorwing w/ 4 Monoscythe, Splinter Cannon, 2 Dark Lances, Flickerfields, Nightshields
175- Razorwing w/ 4 Monoscythe, Splinter Cannon, 2 Dark Lances, Flickerfields, Nightshields
175- Razorwing w/ 4 Monoscythe, Splinter Cannon, 2 Dark Lances, Flickerfields, Nightshields

Total: 2000

So this gives you 22 Dark lances on 17 Platforms, as well as Dukes Blast Pistol (but like that will ever shoot at a tank Razz ) But again you have to remember that T1 you will probably shoot the missles on the Razorwings, so thats -6 lances, but 16 is still respectable. You top that with their amazing AI, and Ive added Duke's Unit to give you a consistant AI each turn, along with the reavers which can just bladevane after the Razorwings have shot their missles and just start being a weaker Ravager.

Its not much, but I would give it a try and see how it works.

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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 17 2012, 18:16

Eh, I don't see how that army works. Every time I go back to using single Blasters I kick myself in the shins. Wink No consistent support, Trueborn especially not.

Personally I've been using the Razorwing setup like that with 2 Necrotoxins instead of Night Shields. With Shock Prows and Torment Grenade Launchers and even Grav Talons if you wanna go that far - Adding these allows you to exploit the element of lowering enemy Leadership and making them take Pinning/Morale Checks Wink

And if you wanna try to "conserve" the blasts you can always use the Razorwing's dual role in a single turn, works very well vs. GK:

"Target" enemy transport vehicle
Clip nearby infantry with blasts, hope for scatter onto them
Dark Lances get transport

It's like a 2-for-1 special like explained in my army list thread Wink
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MrBrokenAzs
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 18 2012, 18:58

Are flickers and night shields really that Important?
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 18 2012, 19:23

Flickerfields I'd say are. Nightshields are not completely as important, but might save your Azs (see what I did there?) in a critical juncture. Suppose you could take them only on the RW:s who will be more far away from the enemy.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list   Thoughts on a tri Razorwing list I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 21 2012, 17:15

@ Smurfy: I will admit the chances of doing something with just darklight is low (your looking at about a 44% chance vs AV11) but thats the reason you take them en mass.

Also with an average scatter of 3" (7-our BS) Unless they are hugging their tanks, I highly doubt that is super effective (although S6 against AV11 isnt bad... its just not an optimal way to use the Razorwing's missles)

@ Mr BrokenAzs: Flickerfields are a must imho, as for nightshields its all depends on the use. They are amazing at keeping rapid fire bolters and meltas from droping your tanks, as well as keeping you out of the range of short range armies like GKs and Crons. Against any dedicated long range AT like missle launchers or auto/las cannons your not really going to be able to hide from them though. That being said the Razorwing(and its bigger brother) are probably the only two things we have that benifit from nightshields both against long range and short range weaponry (as their armaments are 48" range) So they can hug the table edge and gain some protection from those long range AT. Hence why they have them. Also in this list your entire army is your AT part, so you need to keep them alive for as long as possible, hence the abundance of nightshields, as to make sure a rouge melta or two wont get through, and makes the opponent use those long range AT sources, which are getting rarer and rarer these days with the availability of melta.

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