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 Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches

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tlronin
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 08:36

Maybe you could take Uriën Rakarth, to hand out D3 Pain Tokens. This way you won't lose fleet on the Wyches.

As for being fired upon after you detroyed a transport, make sure you have a squad nearby to assault the passengers and consolidate back behind your Raider (if you came on one ofcourse).

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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 10:06

Tironin, neither of those actions are possible.
The standby squad cannot assault the passengers until the next turn, and there is no consolidation from an assault on a vehicle.

Urien is an idea but the wyches need the PT's and Uriens are variable. The 4 heamis guarentee they will get them.
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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 10:11

You are correct sir. The haywires are ofcourse in their assault phase. Sorry.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 10:22

Also Urien can only give PTs to Wracks or Grots.

Glad for good results. Did you take Night Shields? Did enemy concentrated fire on wyches or Ravs/Trueborns ?

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 10:34

Only to Wracks and Grots? Man, I should really not give advice without my dex near me. Sorry, thnx.

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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 11:18

@Azdrubael wrote:
Also Urien can only give PTs to Wracks or Grots.

Glad for good results. Did you take Night Shields? Did enemy concentrated fire on wyches or Ravs/Trueborns ?

Didn't take night shields, everything had flickers though. Night shields is something I'm considering for the ravagers.

The enemy targeted the ravagers first. In his first round of shooting (T2), it was a DoW mission, due to LoS, range and positioning all he could fire was 2 scatter lasers and 1 hydra battery. Everything had moved fast in my 1st turn and so had a 4+ cover save, which of course the hyrda ignores. In that turn I lost 2 ravagers and my archon/trueborn gunboat was stun/shocked. The hydra took down 1 ravager, a laser needing 4's to hit, 5's to glance and with a 4+ cover save took down another ravager and the 2nd laser did the archon's boat. 3 units shooting 3 results, 2 of which were heavy blows.

After that the wyches made it to his lines and did some damage. However next turn, vendettas arrived and took out a vehicle each and from there with some wych units unengaged the flamers in the army kinda made a mess. Thats why I believe the way forward is PT shenanigans.

Overall though this was the most damage I've ever inflicted on this type of mech list and I believe it is the way forward.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 10 2012, 17:20

vs. mech IG Wyches are a potent tool - vs. most other mech lists Wyches are a lesser tool.

Another important consideration vs. IG is going first. When i go 2nd vs. IG it's a big question mark for victory. if I go first I feel confident.

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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 12 2012, 01:39

First turn is pretty important. Going 2nd forces you into full reserve unless you have an obscene amout of BLOS on the table.
However, as I found out today if he has a Master of the Fleet this can work in your favour, by delaying when your reserves come on. It's more likely to be T3 on when you arrive, thereby shortening the game considerably and giving him less time to react to your attacks.
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Fatuous
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 14 2012, 12:41

Glad to hear that the wyches and HW nades are working out. I'm not sure it is as easy as suggesting a simple swop out, warriors for wyches, but a combined approach may well work best.

My biggest fault so far with warrior blaster squads (And I've only played a few games TBH) is the range issues that limit T1 vehicle suppression, especially if used in a venom. You can only move 6" if you want to shoot from the top, but then your just out of range of anything setting up on the edge of ur enemies DZ...... so you have to go 12" and then get out to shoot, opening you up to return fire............ I've countered this by putting them in a raider instead, so you can be shooting from T1, but the blaster still can't be used till T2 at the earliest, unless your opponent is sporting enough to come closer........ the only real way around this is to add in more DLs, and then not moving them, but this is pretty limited, and gets alot more expensive, so I haven't found the warrior blaster squad to be as useful as I thought they'd be till later game.

I've been finding the HW wyches are awesome tho, but have always been running them with a haemie for FNP off the bat, so that getting shot out the raider or hit by a flamer doesn't kill them all, and this has worked pretty well, altho increases the cost. You can bring in an extra liquifier gun tho which is also pretty useful. But I tend to keep these for targets of oppertunity, walkers or if desperate, rather than a main anti tank option.

The best option if you want those nades to be delivering is to combine them with a squad or 2 of Scourges with haywire blasters, and try to get the stunned/immobilised for auto hits, then the nades are devistating!! but the scourges arent cheap, and I you gotta wonder if just giving them the blasters/heat lances to start with might work better anyway........... They do have a pretty good range tho, so if you can over load up close with wyches, etc. keeping the scourges back, you should be able to start knocking em down a bit easier.....

I can't help but think that Reavers may well be the best option over all, as they can engage on T1, then use their move in the assualt phase to nip behind some cover, and start off the tank suppresion T1 with the raiders and ravengers...........

Combined approaches seem the best options tho to me. 7 model wyches squads seems to be about the right size, with HW, maybe 1-2 blaster warrior squads or try out a larger squad with a DL and a blaster...... A raider will benefit them and bring another DL too, but you could save the points to up the squad and place these down (fingers crossed) in cover, as they won't want to be moving much anyway to fire their DL, but can always move up to hit with the blaster to avoid LOS.

I'd be hesitant to go so symetrical in your list, I'm not sure that every wyche squad NEEDS a haemie. Those that have them will certainly be tougher, but those points add up quick, and you will roll a 6 for combat drugs some times, nullifying what they are bringing to the party (altho starting with FC is always nice).

Reg fields for your wyches raider..... I've been finding the NS pretty good, if your going first, as that raider should be turbo boosting forwards. Heavy weapons generally won't have a problem with the extra range anyway, but you've got your 4+ cover for the boost, but can stay outside of rapid fire range far easier, so don't get dropped by small arms fire so easily.
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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 14 2012, 16:47

Thanks for that Fatuous, some good points. The combined approach is the way to go and I feel like I'm nearly there.
As you say a straight swap out may not be the best way to go, but I have a much better feeling about haywire wyches than warrior/blaster units. However this does necessitate the use of FnP on these squads as they will be catching some return fire and explosion blasts.

I've rarely had trouble getting my blasterborn into range on first turn. Careful placement is the key to ensuring that when the venom moves it's 12" the trueborn can step out into cover and blast away. I try to use a bit of screening as well to limit return fire. My blasterborn usually gat about 2 or 3 rounds of shooting to some extent before they are wiped.

I'm going with flickers all round, it's just what I'm used to and believe works best. As you save 4+ cover save plus some screening usually gets the wyches there or thereabouts.

You can see the outcome of my thoughts on this in this list for a tournament next week here:

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t2386-1750-tournament-list-for-x-legion
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Fatuous
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 14 2012, 18:29

I added a comment on the thread, all looks pretty cool, some possible changes for the furture to consider, but over all, it is looking pretty good.

I have to confess to being shocked at how good haywire grenades were, they really performed better than I ever expected, but deffo try to target stunned or immobilised vehicles and then...... boy, nothing survives!!!! Very Happy

As much as I wanted to like warrior blaster squads, and thought they'd be awesome, I have to agree that wyches seem to be able to handle things pretty well too, but a little support almost guarnatees it.

I'll keep the getting out in to cover idea in mind. My locl group of players have been moaning about cover in 5th for ages and have now pretty much removed most area terrain from our boards, which is a bit frustrating, as anything getting out, takes a serious hammering, but works both ways and leaves them quite exposed too, so can't moan too much, but makes those tactics a bit trickier to get to work......

I've been plotting my DE for ages now, but only played a few combat patrol games at 500 points so not hugely experienced how it all comes together, but the wyches, haemie units (at 7 models strong) have shown to be pretty durable, and very deadly so far, so certainly will be adding more!!!! Very Happy
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Smurfy
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 14 2012, 20:40

@Azdrubael wrote:
Blasterborn brings duality - killines of Venom and AV potentail of blasters. Sure you can take Raiders but youl start instantly suffer in AI department.
Not really, you really suffer for anti-tank when Blasterborn's ride's die the passengers fry with it. I just disdain Blasterborn so much now though, Lanceborn all the way.

As for the OP question I like Wychs more than warriors + blaster for another reason: Can lock up Rifledreads, which are the bane of DE in any form.

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wildarm
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PostSubject: Re: Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches   Blaster Warriors or Haywire wyches - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 16 2012, 22:06

i love HW wyches, and i normally use ten in a raider, most of the time i sprint them across the board and surround a troop transport hit it with so many glances that it wrecks and then the fun begins.
This is what i wanted to ask you guy if you do the same or im wrong here, when a you wreck rather than explode the unit has to disembark 'before' the viechle is destroyed. now when you have it completely surrounded so the troops 'cant' disembark theyre destoryed. now the rulebook says a unit cant move through another unit but the emergency disembarkation rules say if a unit cant disembark it is deployed within 2" so can they hop over the wyches even though im surrounding the viechle?
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