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 The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.

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thecactusman17
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Ythillan
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PostSubject: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 00:49

Ok, I have a competitive tourny on the horizon. Ive been well out the competitive scene for a while and I only really face the same few armies at my club - thus I have limited knowledge of what qualifies as 'omg it has to die now'.

I also thought this might be interesting to see different opinions. So... without going mega into detail, say you had a sort of cookie cutter Dark Eldar build, vs a cookie cutter 'x army' build, state THE ONE thing that must die first or else!

(Disclaimer : I know there are a million variations of armies and it all really depends on what style of DE you field, but keep everything as vanilla as possible - it doesnt have to be a precision response!)


Blood Angels -
Daemons -
Chaos Marines -
Dark Eldar -
Eldar -
Grey Knights -
Guard -
Necrons -
Orks -
Sisters -
Space Marines -
Space Wolves -
Tau -
Tyranids -
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 01:49

My last two games have been pastings by Blood Angels and Space Wolves. I think that I'm safe to say that Twin Autocannon (aka riflemen) Dreads and Long Fangs are high priority for those armies.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 02:02

IG-believe it or not, I try to wipe out Chimeras loaded with troops first. With 6 shots min from Multi lasers and HB's each while shielding a scoring unit, these are bad news for our fragile AV10 open-topped raiders/venoms. After that I take out anything with more than one autocannon. IG players expect you to take out their LR's first because of the big point sink that they represent, but in objective missions you really must take out the Troops in transports first.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 02:28

Blood Angels - transports to limit mobility then the baal preds
Daemons - anything slaanesh
Chaos Marines - obliterators
Dark Eldar - ravagers
Eldar - warwalkers with twin scatter laser
Grey Knights - psyrifleman dreads
Guard - hydras
Necrons - annialation barge
Orks - battle wagons
Sisters - exorcists
Space Marines - thunderfire cannons
Space Wolves - long fangs
Tau - broadside teams
Tyranids - hive guard

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 03:16

Blood Angels - Transports that are Razorbacks first - then probably any flying Librarian dreads or other tank hunting mech.

Daemons - Psssh. Uh...if he brought him - Fateweaver is a 'must die first' mostly you'll just fly circles around them and shoot them to death though.

Chaos Marines - Oblits (eventually I knew I'd agree with Massaen Wink )

Dark Eldar - depends on the build - Trueblasters and Ravagers are usually optimal though.

Eldar - Walkers or Vypers spamming Scatter Lasers. Then Serpents or Falcons depending on which is carrying stuff.

Grey Knights - Psyammo units - dreads and razorbacks.

Guard - Hydras then Chimera - Lemans, Manticores, and other such gak don't sweat us.

Necrons - Yeah, total agreement with Massaen again - Annihilation Barge

Orks - depends on the build - Lootas if they're there - transports after that with primary aim being the one with the KFF.

Sisters - Exorcist

Space Marines - Depends on the build, I agree with the thunderfire call, but you really never see those. Basically kill his long range anti-mech, Riflemen, Razorbacks, and Preds are all solid targets.

Space Wolves - Long Fangs *must* die.

Tau - Broadsides are basically very expensive Long Fangs - kill

Tyranids - laugh? Um, again, depends on build, Hive Guard isn't a bad call - after that pretty much any big bug or Genestealer swarm that looks menacing.


All of the above answers presume you're playing mech DE.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 13:42

I agree mostly with what have been said.

My couple of pain tokens.

GK - kill transports first. I know Dreads are more threatening but thats not our best match up. We may never know when will dread go down , but we do know that venoms will go down fast unders PsyDread fire, very fast. So better let them some working time on their infantry.

Tyrandis - Hive Guard , after latest FAQ we wont get cover save for FLat-out against them.

IG - if there are hydras or manticores - try at least shake them first.

Space Marines - Speeders , Dakka Preds.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 16:44

Most everything's been said, but I'm going to throw Gunfexes a bone.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 17:14

Cheers guys, this is exactly the sort of list of lists I thought would be beneficial.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 18:10

Not got much time at the minute but as a general rule I'd say you can't go far wrong by taking out, medium strength, high rate of fire units or vehicles first. So any twin auto-cannon dreads, hydras, scatter lasers, multi lasers, TL ass cannon R/backs, ML dev type units.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 22 2012, 19:49

^^^
Good general rule.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 23 2012, 02:57

All Armies: Any transport is a good kill.
Blood Angels - Preds and dreads.
Daemons - Flamers, soulgrinders, fiends.
Chaos Marines - Oblits.
Dark Eldar - are you playing kill points? Then ravagers. Are you playing objectives? Then troop.
Eldar - Fire dragon wave serpents. Stun the falcons/prisms and move on.
Grey Knights - Psy dreads. Any transport/tank.
Guard - Hydras have to die, vendettas have to die... then chimeras.
Necrons - Wraiths and Scarabs.
Orks - Kans, Battlewagons
Sisters - Exorsists.
Space Marines - Transports, thunderfire cannon, dreads.
Space Wolves - Long Fangs, Thunder wolves, any shooting.
Tau - Broadsides and suits.
Tyranids - Venomthropes, Hive guard are the key targets. Then the big critters.... want to kill a MC fast? Then charge the MC and engage only one model against it, also make sure you drag some of the smaller critters into the combat, allocate as many attacks as you can to the small creatures and watch the MC die from all the no retreat wounds! (tee hee)

This is a basic synopsis. Of course playing smart and using -terrain- to your advantage is key when playing DE.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 23 2012, 07:43

Here's what I more specifically go for:

Blood Angels – FnP Dev squads, Assault Cannon R/Backs
Chaos Marines - Oblits. Auto-cannon Havocs
Dark Eldar – Ravagers, Razorwings
Eldar – Scatter Lasers, Fire Dragons
Grey Knights – Psyfleman Dreads, Psy AmmoRazorbacks
Guard – Hydras, Vendettas, Psyker Battle Squad
Necrons – Stormlord, Scarabs,
Orks – Loota’s, Big Mek in Kan lists
Sisters – No Idea
Space Marines – Auto-cannon Dreads
Space Wolves - Long Fangs, Living Lightning Priests
Tau – No Idea
Tyranids – Hive Guard, Tervigons
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 23 2012, 08:55

@Massaen wrote:

Grey Knights - psyrifleman dreads

You can add DCA's in a LR or Storm Chicken to the list too.

But I too am a fan of the Ravagers targeting Psy-backs first, keep those slow troops way back and let Venoms/Razorwing take care of them. As for your deployment, try to hide from Dread return fire
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 23 2012, 19:30

pretty much all have been said.But I will like to add more of a theory than a particular unit.

I use the "shake them till their dead" theory. Which when broken down is, unless you are playing GKs, is shoot at the highest priority target and shake it, then move on. So say you are playing IG, well now that hydra look awefully scary on their high hill looking down at you. Well one shake (if they arent squadroned) is all it takes to stop it from shooting. You then move on to the next unit until everything you can shake is atleast shaken. Anything more is a bonus. Then you start focusing on things that you need destroyed (transports, other scary things)

The problem with this theory are things that cant be shaken (other than GKs...) which means footies. Devs, Lootas, Hive Guard must die. Heck, even the humble IG heavy weapons team is scary when fielded in mass. These are where you need your venoms/razorwings to mop up quickly and effectively Razz


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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 23 2012, 19:58

^^^
Smart things have been said smartly.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 05:38

The biggest Sisters threat isn't Exorcists (though they are certainly scary) but instead Retributors, whose Rending heavy bolters can make scrap out of both our tanks and our infantry.

Guard threats start with the Hydra, then Chimera, then any platoon within 6" of a company command squad. Command squads make the low BS of IG completely irrelevant by increasing the chance to hit or the chance to successfully save against incoming shots.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 07:55

I don't think I've ever seen bolter Retributors fielded.

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 08:11

I follow Shadows' line of thought, although my dice tend not to. And kenny's:

@kenny3760 wrote:
Not got much time at the minute but as a general rule I'd say you can't go far wrong by taking out, medium strength, high rate of fire units or vehicles first. So any twin auto-cannon dreads, hydras, scatter lasers, multi lasers, TL ass cannon R/backs, ML dev type units.

I would tend to rank Trueborn-filled Venoms 2nd behind Razorwings for DE, and even 1st if the RW's are in reserve. Especially if I am facing 3 or 4 Venoms. If I can kill those quickly, I save myself a lot of grief from their weight of fire, plus I can often kill or partially neuter what's in them as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 13:32

@Thor665 wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen bolter Retributors fielded.

You will. They are the gem of the codex. Dirt cheap, and they don't even need heavy weapons to be a significant threat to infantry and light armor. The only issue they have right now is getting them the faith reliably without taking wounds, but if you are doing things right eventually it's on a 2+.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 13:40

@Skari wrote:
Necrons - Wraiths and Scarabs.
Do you find it as funny as I do that scarabs has turned into something incredibly dangerous?

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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 14:47

@thecactusman17 wrote:
@Thor665 wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen bolter Retributors fielded.

You will. They are the gem of the codex. Dirt cheap, and they don't even need heavy weapons to be a significant threat to infantry and light armor. The only issue they have right now is getting them the faith reliably without taking wounds, but if you are doing things right eventually it's on a 2+.

I dont think retibutors are bad persay, the problem is that the exorist is too good. D6 AP1 missle launcher hurts any mech army. We actually have an avid SoB player in our LGW (been playing them for years) and we were actually all convinced that the Exorist was going to lose its AP1 status. Luckily it didnt, just the rest of the army suffered (although 4x scouting Meltas are scary as well...)

@Saintspirit wrote:
Do you find it as funny as I do that scarabs has turned into something incredibly dangerous?

Well Im actually glad scarabs got a re-do. Have you ever read the fluff of what happens when those little things get on you??? Man... its not pretty. Too bad Rippers dont have the same effectiveness
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 18:04

The exorcist is a good tank, but it is extremely unreliable. Before the new DE I mained WH and none if the important stuff had changed. You get D6, but then you still have to hit. With a 1 or 2, you are still liable to miss outright our not do enough damage to kill a tank.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 18:16

@thecactusman17 wrote:
The exorcist is a good tank, but it is extremely unreliable. Before the new DE I mained WH and none if the important stuff had changed. You get D6, but then you still have to hit. With a 1 or 2, you are still liable to miss outright our not do enough damage to kill a tank.

That is like Manticores in the IG codex. They only have four missile, that are once use, you can still miss with them but people still take them.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 19:49

@thecactusman17 wrote:
The exorcist is a good tank, but it is extremely unreliable. Before the new DE I mained WH and none if the important stuff had changed. You get D6, but then you still have to hit. With a 1 or 2, you are still liable to miss outright our not do enough damage to kill a tank.

lol old WH were nasty if you new what you were doing (and took only SoB) and yes, its important stuff did change. No longer are you running around with 20 + faith points and are able to make every SoB become a tarpit at whim (3++ along with stubborn 5 point upgrade = tarpit hell) Or are you able to make your bolters AP1 at will (say bye bye DE tanks) SoB were very, very good for how old the codex was. Now they had some major nerfs, but have some gems like 4x scouting meltas and the Exorist.
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PostSubject: Re: The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread.   The 'It has to die quick!!!' thread. I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 19:53

You never could make your bolters ap1 vs tanks. Only on wounds. As future my statement, I was talking about exorcists
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