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Loubaddon
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PostSubject: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 15 2012, 19:00

Alright, first post here. I LOVE the void raven bomber, I pretty much always use 2 of them in any list I write (I haven't written one that I absolutely love yet) and I always run 4 Necrotoxins on each which have almost always killed off the target im shooting at. My question in why does no one use them!? I have plenty of tactics and thougts but would like to here others opinions.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 15 2012, 19:36

I tend to be against them because I think they're inferior in every way to their competition.

Ravagers are better at mech suppression (not killing - VRs are better at killing, but Ravagers are more likely to actually inflict damage) and are better while being quite a bit cheaper.

Razorwings are better at blasting apart infantry and, again, do it better for cheaper.

The Void Raven fits an odd dual role - but I could still fill that dual role with the Razorwing for cheaper if I use lances on it and not give up too much in the tank hunting zone.

So, basically I don't use them because other units do what they do better/as good and for point savings of around 30-50 points.
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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 15 2012, 19:57

@Thor665 wrote:
I tend to be against them because I think they're inferior in every way to their competition.

Ravagers are better at mech suppression (not killing - VRs are better at killing, but Ravagers are more likely to actually inflict damage) and are better while being quite a bit cheaper.

Razorwings are better at blasting apart infantry and, again, do it better for cheaper.

The Void Raven fits an odd dual role - but I could still fill that dual role with the Razorwing for cheaper if I use lances on it and not give up too much in the tank hunting zone.

So, basically I don't use them because other units do what they do better/as good and for point savings of around 30-50 points.
+1^
I've never been able to justify the additional cost for what it actually does over using other units(Ravagers/other units). I find that sinking that many points into one model that has a dual role is better spent taking two units that specialize at doing either AI or AT so that you get to do both while only losing the capabilities of one of one gets stunned.

That being said, I know that I'll be the first in line if they ever release a shiny new model for it! Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 15 2012, 21:39

Necrotixn missiles is cheaper on Razorwing, also Razorwing itself is cheaper , aslo Razorwing do have model.

I dont really see point in paying premier points for slightly upgraded lance and almost useless blast. Even with leaked Rulebook of 6th that seems not really worth ot. At least Bomb will cause improved pinning and dont in movement phase , which is better.

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lonewolf5d
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 16 2012, 01:59

as of late i have been running two VR and a ravager with DC's. the ravagers moves up and inevitably they cluster for cover, only to have a volley of missiles, followed by void lance sniping. it worth having the VR for the extra 1d6 scatter bomb. i have taken out plenty of deep strike gambits that way. they land and the bomber decides to get some distance; all the while dropping a small and; in my opinion, fairly accurate tank killer on the way out. IMO its just plain better. slightly higher amour, more missile space and a bomb on the fly during repositions. i have a warm spot in my heart for them, right next to the lakes of blood those two VR have spilt.

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Loubaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 16 2012, 02:49

For the model I just use the razorwing, and the reason I like the void raven is because you can take 4 necros vs only 2 on the razorwing. And I think void lances are SAWEET!! But I have also been thinking about cutting down to just one Bomber and 2 ravagers...

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 16 2012, 04:48

Why can you only have 2 Necrotoxin Missiles on a Razorwing? You have 4 Monoscythes and it's a direct exchange of Monoscythe to Necrotoxin...so you can have 4 NT missiles on a Razorwing. They even cost less on the Razorwing...
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Loubaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17 2012, 03:42

haha my bad... i read the entry wrong.

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Ythillan
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17 2012, 15:48

Just out of interest, when you guys field a void raven, do you just use the razorwing model? Anyone had bother in a strict wysiwyg environment?

I'd be interested in using one just to see how it works out, I have always overlooked it.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17 2012, 21:27

I haven't used one yet (I just use the Razorwing), but I have the FW Void Dragon Phoenix, which I believe is veyr similar to the Voidraven (both being two-pilot fighter-bombers).

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Loubaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18 2012, 03:42

I just use the Razorwing and then I made my own Void bomb. No one has ever given me crap for it.

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Lord Klar Kashton
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18 2012, 07:07

I've had mixed results with the Void Raven. Sometimes it works really well, other times not so much. It's just too bad that you only get one Void Mine on it, those can be rather nasty.

I agree though, it is rather expensive points wise, and you may be better off getting a Ravager. Still, (if it lives that long) the extra movement can be useful for contesting objectives.

(As an aside, is the 1d6 scatter modified by the gunner's BS? I can't find anything definite one way or the other. On the one hand, it is a blast, which is modified by the BS. On the other, since it can only deviate 1d6, does that cancel out the BS? Personally, I think it is modified by the BS. But, since that is a distinct advantage for me, I would like others feedback about this.)

Back on topic. I use the Xenos Fighter Bomber model from Rakalnar for my Void Raven. It's a resin cast model for a reasonable price. Not usable in official GW events, of course, but shouldn't really be a problem in friendly games. Smile

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Loubaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 03:58

I just checked the Errata and there is nothing that says you do not use the BS. I always have, thats one of the reasons I love it becase it will only scatter 2" at the most Smile

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 05:07

I'll note it's a permissive rule set - they tell you everything you can do, not everything you can't. You don't use the BS in that instance because it's not a normal scatter role, it's a specific scatter rule for the weapon.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 05:13

I am converting a FW void dragon phoenix into my void raven.

In the games i have used it (alongside a razorwing and ravager) i find i would probably be better off with the ravager but the problem is - the planes are cool!

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SirTainly
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 23:12

Gobsmakked has used his converted one at the club - not sure how it did though, hopefully he'll chime in on this one.
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 23:31

I have not used it that much yet, I don't play often enough. Whenever I have used it, on average it lasts no longer than my Razorwing and it kills no more nor less. The Void Lances have never done anything spectacular (lance weapons and my dice are mutually incompatible) and I have yet to drop the VMine on anything.

I absolutely love it and will continue to field it just cuz I want too, but it hasn't justified the additional cost yet. I may even build/buy another one.

Generally, I much prefer a RW or a VR over a Ravager, points permitting.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19 2012, 23:33

@Thor665 wrote:
I'll note it's a permissive rule set - they tell you everything you can do, not everything you can't. You don't use the BS in that instance because it's not a normal scatter role, it's a specific scatter rule for the weapon.

Amen. D6 scatter =/= 2D6 - BS rulebook scatter. Good thing is You have really good chance to hit model You've targeted, ~ 5/6 in most cases.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 20 2012, 17:21

The voidraven is good but not amazing, at least in this edition without flier rules. Razorwing is just perfect right now, while VR needs a mix of experience, luck and context to reach its full potential.
But reading the "leaked" 6th ed rules, then it just becomes nasty (I think I"ll write something about it in the rumours topic).

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thecactusman17
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 05:56

Voidravens are EXCELLENT uses of points, but you have to undersand that they work a bit different compared to the Razorwing.

S9 lances mean that Voidranvens should be your go-to choice for AV12+ units like predators, dreadnoughts, and land raiders. However they are less effective vs. elite armies and far less effective vs. horde armies.

The benefits: Voidravens can tear through tanks very rapidly. The void mine placement means that even clipping a land raider with your passover makes the mine nearly impossible to miss with, and the dual lances penetrate even the toughest armor with ease. The stock S6 AP5 missiles can also make short work of a light tank. AV11, close topped means that the Voidraven is likely to survive more damage than any other vehicle in the codex, possibly including Vect's Dais.


The Negatives: Paint a target on this thing while you are at it, Voidravens are the focus of your anti-tank and anti-horde strategy and thus the target of your opponent in most games. Against Lance-ignoring units or Venerable dreadnoughts, the AP2 is a liability that fails to increase the number of wrecked or explodes results. S9 doesn't improve your chances against most infantry either. With a full compliment of missiles, this unit costs 30 points more than a razorwing with all the stock missiles, two lances, AND a splinter cannon. Pricey, but worth its points especially when fielded in multiples.
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 25 2012, 08:15

@thecactusman17 wrote:
Pricey, but worth its points especially when fielded in multiples.

Would absolutely love to do this, but I have a hard time tossing up between converting more (sooooo much work) or waiting for the official one to release (soooooo much money) Sad
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Vael Galizur
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 21 2012, 09:11

I'm glad to hear there are uses for them as I love the idea. I just wish they'd hurry up and release the model so I'll stop being so tempted by the Void Dragon Phoenix.

I looked up that Ralknar Fighter Bomber. I can't believe they are selling resin copies of a slightly modded Batwing from Batman Forever. I have that model kit and while it is pretty cool, and seems to be a very popular way to build a Void Raven, it just looks so iconic as to always look like Batman's plane to me.

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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 22 2012, 00:03

The mine is a bad taste joke, I was expecting something crazy from the write up , it is essentially unusable and pointless.

Ultimately the Raven is worthwhile in higher point games as you can get the best statistical advantages of both the Ravager and Razorwing on one platform , it's tougher than either, is roughly the same as a ravager for AT(less results more kills, very marginal diff) and you may as well pack shatters so its got the same ish anti infantry alpha strike as a razorwing with mono's and a splintercannon. its not 'better' than either of them but it can do both jobs just as well is more survivable and you get the fail-bomb as the worlds worst complimentary gift.

I can squeeze one in at 1750 ok , you can likely get away with 3 at 2k if you built for it , 6 str 9 lances and 12 str 7 pies ...... thats your heavy support output about maxed I rekkon

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thecactusman17
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 23 2012, 06:00

@Sorrowshard wrote:
The mine is a bad taste joke, I was expecting something crazy from the write up , it is essentially unusable and pointless.

Ultimately the Raven is worthwhile in higher point games as you can get the best statistical advantages of both the Ravager and Razorwing on one platform , it's tougher than either, is roughly the same as a ravager for AT(less results more kills, very marginal diff) and you may as well pack shatters so its got the same ish anti infantry alpha strike as a razorwing with mono's and a splintercannon. its not 'better' than either of them but it can do both jobs just as well is more survivable and you get the fail-bomb as the worlds worst complimentary gift.

I can squeeze one in at 1750 ok , you can likely get away with 3 at 2k if you built for it , 6 str 9 lances and 12 str 7 pies ...... thats your heavy support output about maxed I rekkon

The mine centers over anything you pass over. I repeat: CENTERS OVER. Nick your opponent's Land Raider with a wingtip? Place that sucker down in the center.

A lot more useful now, eh?
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: Void Raven Bomber   Void Raven Bomber I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 23 2012, 07:26

Nope, still a useless POS, I knew abour the centering when I wrote the last post .

It really is a very poor set of rules for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of DE tech, please explain why it is significantly worse than say a vindicator shell and to top it off you get one shot, I think a simple HK missile is a better one shot missile, or how about bloodstrikes you get 4 AND they are ap1 and you dont end up having
To park in range of your entire opponents army /assaulters to use them.

It is one of several things in the book that make no sense at all

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