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 How are you setting up Razorwing and why?

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depayen
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PostSubject: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 18:27

This topic is for how are people decking Razorwings out and why. The reason I ask is that I am considering buying one or two and I want see how other people are setting them up and what other seeky uses they coming up with.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 18:30

I like mine as troop killers. Dissies, splinter cannon and necrotoxin missiles.
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Rangrok1k
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 19:10

I orient them for Anti-Infantry unless it is a very small game, where I need the possible dual lances.

Most of the time, 2 Disintegrators, a Splinter Cannon, and Shatterfield Missiles.

Personally, I think the Re-roll failed to wound at str 7 is better than the poison 2+. Against infantry, you will be wounding them on a 2+ with str 7, with re-rolls to wound. Most of my games are against Space Marines, so that ap5 wont be doing much, and pinning I find unreliable. If you are against something like Eldar, you can also be causing instant death. Against races like Tyranids, the re-rollable str 7 hit (wounds on a 3+ at worse) is better than a plain poison 2+.

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Flayed_Skull_Archon
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 19:39

I was considering 2 Dissies, 1 Splinter Cannon and 4 Monoscythes to keep it cheap.

I was going to use them for a particularly nasty drop 4 large templates when it arrives from reserves.

As a Flayed Skulls player, I was considering running 1 and 2 Voidraven Bombers or 2 and 1 Voidraven Bomber. I am not sure which way I am going to go.
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The Strange Dude
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 21:18

2 dissies, splintercannon and monosycthes (S6 wounds most things on 2+ anyway and at a push can be used as anti-vehicle). Then Flickerfield and Nightshields to add surviability. 175pts Expensive? Yes but the model is too pretty not to run it.

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Rangrok1k
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 21:48

@Flayed_Skull_Archon wrote:
As a Flayed Skulls player, I was considering running 1 and 2 Voidraven Bombers or 2 and 1 Voidraven Bomber. I am not sure which way I am going to go.
Personally, I think the Ravager's quantity of shots outweighs the Voidraven Bomber's quality of shots. According to my math, 3 Dark Lances are about 10% better against AV10 and AV11 than 2 Void Lances. When against AV12+, they both deal the same number of penetrating hits on average, but the Ravager deals more glancing hits than the Voidraven Bomber. Overall, the Ravager is about 7.5% better than the Voidraven Bomber (Yes, I already sacrificed my life to the dice gods).

HOWEVER! Numbers aren't everything. That 7.5% improvement is way too small to matter. The players around you, their army styles, and your personal preference have a far more significant impact than 7.5%. If you are in a tournament with massive amounts of money as a prize to the victorious general, then you should probably field Ravagers over Voidraven Bombers. However, if you just want to spend a day with some friends, couple cans of soda, and a pizza while enjoying a free Saturday, then have fun with a Voidraven Bomber.

I would suggest 2 Razoring Jetfighters and 1 Voidraven bomber if you are also bringing lots of Raiders and/or Blaster Trueborn. If your opponents do tend to use a lot of Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders, then bring two Voidraven Bombers.

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DrBored
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 22:36

Razorwings with Disintegrator Cannons, a Splinter Cannon, and the Monoscythe are great. The Monoscythe is quite nice when it comes to going against Orks, IG, Nids, and even Dark Eldar, as the AP will deny armor saves. Yeah it's less effective against Marines, but str 6 is still nothing to scoff at. If you've got points to spare, load on the Shatterfield so you can glance some vehicles to death with str 7 ap -, but if that's the case, you may as well keep the Dark Lances and not even upgrade the Splinter Cannon just to save some points and keep it as an anti-vehicle device.

The voidraven is nice because of the better lances. There are fewer of them, but they pierce better, and are our best bet at taking down Land Raiders with Blessed Hull and Monoliths. The Void mine isn't really anything special, except that you can drop it while going 36" across the board, potentially putting some wounds on something, or popping a transport with relative ease.

Both of these vehicles benefit a lot more from Night Shields than other vehicles.

Remember that ranged weapons measure from the model to the HULL of the vehicle, not the base. Considering the Flying stand is about 6" up, subtracting 6" from someone's range means they're even farther out of range, especially from Melta and Rapid Fire weapons!
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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeSun May 29 2011, 22:55

I'm gonna keep it cheap and anti-infantry, so splinter cannon, dissies, and monoscythes.
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Flayed_Skull_Archon
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeMon May 30 2011, 00:55

@Rangrok1k wrote:
@Flayed_Skull_Archon wrote:
As a Flayed Skulls player, I was considering running 1 and 2 Voidraven Bombers or 2 and 1 Voidraven Bomber. I am not sure which way I am going to go.
Personally, I think the Ravager's quantity of shots outweighs the Voidraven Bomber's quality of shots. According to my math, 3 Dark Lances are about 10% better against AV10 and AV11 than 2 Void Lances. When against AV12+, they both deal the same number of penetrating hits on average, but the Ravager deals more glancing hits than the Voidraven Bomber. Overall, the Ravager is about 7.5% better than the Voidraven Bomber (Yes, I already sacrificed my life to the dice gods).

HOWEVER! Numbers aren't everything. That 7.5% improvement is way too small to matter. The players around you, their army styles, and your personal preference have a far more significant impact than 7.5%. If you are in a tournament with massive amounts of money as a prize to the victorious general, then you should probably field Ravagers over Voidraven Bombers. However, if you just want to spend a day with some friends, couple cans of soda, and a pizza while enjoying a free Saturday, then have fun with a Voidraven Bomber.

I would suggest 2 Razoring Jetfighters and 1 Voidraven bomber if you are also bringing lots of Raiders and/or Blaster Trueborn. If your opponents do tend to use a lot of Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders, then bring two Voidraven Bombers.

Oh no worries, I have 3 Ravagers and use them currently!

The fliers would be for a take all comers theme list for the Kabal of the Flayed Skull. I do bring lots of Raiders and when the Venom is released, Blaster Trueborn.

I also forgot to mention that I would also take Night Shields on both fliers.

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeMon May 30 2011, 05:46

@Rangrok1k wrote:
@Flayed_Skull_Archon wrote:
As a Flayed Skulls player, I was considering running 1 and 2 Voidraven Bombers or 2 and 1 Voidraven Bomber. I am not sure which way I am going to go.
Personally, I think the Ravager's quantity of shots outweighs the Voidraven Bomber's quality of shots. According to my math, 3 Dark Lances are about 10% better against AV10 and AV11 than 2 Void Lances. When against AV12+, they both deal the same number of penetrating hits on average, but the Ravager deals more glancing hits than the Voidraven Bomber. Overall, the Ravager is about 7.5% better than the Voidraven Bomber (Yes, I already sacrificed my life to the dice gods).

HOWEVER! Numbers aren't everything. That 7.5% improvement is way too small to matter. The players around you, their army styles, and your personal preference have a far more significant impact than 7.5%. If you are in a tournament with massive amounts of money as a prize to the victorious general, then you should probably field Ravagers over Voidraven Bombers. However, if you just want to spend a day with some friends, couple cans of soda, and a pizza while enjoying a free Saturday, then have fun with a Voidraven Bomber.

I would suggest 2 Razoring Jetfighters and 1 Voidraven bomber if you are also bringing lots of Raiders and/or Blaster Trueborn. If your opponents do tend to use a lot of Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders, then bring two Voidraven Bombers.

The 7.5% pure shooting is balanced off by two factors in the Voidravens favor. First, it moves 36" flat out, getting more shots at side and rear armour. Second, it's slightly more survivable because it's not open topped. Almost any penetrating roll on a Ravager is making it useless for a round, and has a 50% chance of killing it. With only AV 11, it's a legitimate reality that alot of the hits you take will be pens. So 33.33% chance to be destroyed vs 50% makes a big difference.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeMon May 30 2011, 08:29

Rzorwing with Monoscythes and eighter 2 Lances or Disse+SC, dependign on whether I have enough Lances elsewhere. Currently I'm leaning to Dissies, since I can fit plenty of lances via 2 Ravagers, Trueborn and/or Reavers. 12 shots a turn, half of which are ap2, and 4 larger blasts is enough to mow down most infantry.

I wouldn't really bother upgrading the missiles. Necrotoxin is actually worse than Monoscythe (Monoscythe already wounds on 2+ againt the things you'll usually be shooting, ie. t3-4, and as a bonus instakills t3 and can harm vehicles) and Shatterfield, while better, isn't necessarily that much better to justify the extra cost (I'm already putting a load of points on an av10 vehicle). I might magnetise the missles so I can switch to Shatterfield if I have the points (definedly going to magnetice the other weapons so I can swap between the two configurations).

Also, I'm giving it bother Nightshield and Flickerfield. Usually I only take Flickerfields, and if I have points, take NS on some vehicles, but for the planes I always try to take both. As mentioned above, this makes it nearly untargettable for 12'' range weapons, and due to the long range of missiles allows you to stay back and fire them at the enemy without the fear of getting shot.

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeTue May 31 2011, 18:01

Like many others I'm considering the anti-infantry set up. I have trouble killing tanks so don't want to waste DL shots on super-heavy infantry. That means that disintegrators are good for stuff like terminators, MANs, etc.

However, I am wondering if a Razorwing with DLs would be good as a second unit to zip around and attack enemy side armour (I figure my Reavers would be the other side of the pincher).

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 10:37

Dark lances; I may use it for anti-infantry, but the duality is nice. Flickerfields are a must. I'm still debating whether or not the shatterfield is better than the monoscythe. Also, whether or not the splinter cannon is worth the 10 points is up in the air. I have to do some playtesting to sort all this out. But I definitely need the DLs if I'm giving up a ravager.
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shadow hunter
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 11:12

I think I am going anti infantry too - but will keep the standard missiles - as I prefer to keep it cheap, and generally they will be wounding on 2+ anyway. Also S6 is ok for knocking out light armour if needed.


What is everyone's thoughts on the flying stand?

Technically its just a fast skimmer - but on that huge stnad it will never be able to take advantage of terrain.

Would anyone frown if I were to cut the height of the stand down to make it more a low level attack craft? I know my friends wouldn't mind - just after a general opinion.

If it has to use skimmer rules - I find it a bit rubbish it is given a flyer base/stand.
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Urien Rakarth
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 13:41

Plans are to go with the Dissies, SC, standard missiles and shields. I'll be dropping my third ravager and third unit of Kabalites to make the points, I think it will do more damage than both of them to be honest, and being able to fire off 4 large templates in one turn if I want I think will give people pause.
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 20:12

If I do get a Razorwing, it'll be the infantry-slayer it's supposed to be: 2x Disintegrators, 2x Splinter Cannons, 4x Monoscythes.

I stand by the Monoscythe because not only does it inflict instant death on T3 models (fantastic against Imperial Guard Heavy Weapon Teams), but also because of its ability to threaten light vehicles. I had a game once where I was playing 1,000 points against a leafblower Guard list. It was turn 3, he'd taken down half my Raiders and my Reavers, and all I had to show for it was a wrecked Chimera (thanks to my Reavers' Heat Lance), and the squad inside ended up marching alongside the wall of tanks rolling towards me. My Voidraven fires its Void Lances at one of the Chimeras (the one in the middle, in the hopes that it would explode and damage the ones next to it), and I fall victim to Rubber Lance Syndrome (it happens to me a lot). Getting desperate, I unload a Monoscythe at the offending vehicle, hoping that it would scatter onto the nearby infantry squad.

The missile did scatter, but not onto the infantry. It did, however, score a penetrating hit on the Chimera's side armor, which translated into a Vehicle Explodes! result that not only destroyed the Chimera, but knocked the turret off another and claimed a total of 11 Guardsmen (6 from its passengers, and 5 from the nearby infantry). The next turn my Wyches were finally able to get into the action and wiped out the stragglers.

I still lost that game, but taking out more than 110 points worth of enemy troops with a 10-point missile made it worth it.

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shadow hunter
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 20:40

@theblackjackal wrote:

The missile did scatter, but not onto the infantry. It did, however, score a penetrating hit on the Chimera's side armor, which translated into a Vehicle Explodes! result that not only destroyed the Chimera, but knocked the turret off another.

How did it do that?
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 20:54

It's S5, so it can do that... I mean it can destroy Chimara when You hit it directly, but knocking off turret...
Only passangers get S4 hit, rest (all within d6) get S3 hit (yes. S3, not 4).

I wonder if you see any use for Voidravens? S9 with Lance seems scary, even for Monoliths...

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:03

@Local_Ork wrote:
It's S5, so it can do that... I mean it can destroy Chimara when You hit it directly, but knocking off turret...
Only passangers get S4 hit, rest (all within d6) get S3 hit (yes. S3, not 4).

I wonder if you see any use for Voidravens? S9 with Lance seems scary, even for Monoliths...
I love Voidravens. I'll be using Razorwings a lot a proxies until the model is released.
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:14

Would a Vampire raider be too big for a count-as voidraven?

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:37

@Local_Ork wrote:
It's S5, so it can do that... I mean it can destroy Chimara when You hit it directly, but knocking off turret...
Only passangers get S4 hit, rest (all within d6) get S3 hit (yes. S3, not 4).

I wonder if you see any use for Voidravens? S9 with Lance seems scary, even for Monoliths...

Its kind of what I mean - when a vehicle blows up - I dont believe the explosion effects vehicles. So not sure how it blew one vehicle up and the explosion knock the turret off another?

Also, I dont believe monoliths are affected by the lance rule so would still be armour 14. However S9 will be handy.
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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:46

s9 is exact reason why Monoliths should sweat. It's sad it's "only" AP2. AP 1 would make it... "straightforward good". They are nice, but point cost throw away people.

And explosion actually DO hit vehicles, but with S3 Cool

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:49

@Saintspirit wrote:
Would a Vampire raider be too big for a count-as voidraven?

The Vampire Raider is HUUUGGGE. In short, yes Smile.

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 21:56

@Sky Serpent wrote:
@Saintspirit wrote:
Would a Vampire raider be too big for a count-as voidraven?
The Vampire Raider is HUUUGGGE. In short, yes Smile.
Dang, when it's so cool and all.

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PostSubject: Re: How are you setting up Razorwing and why?   How are you setting up Razorwing and why? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 03 2011, 22:07

I think a Void Dragon Phoenix would work better. Its not as insanely huge as the Vampire chassis ships.

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