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Kesharq
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Kesharq

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PostSubject: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 11:09

just two quick questions about the (deployed) WWP

1st. The WWP counts as unpassable terrain - can a skimmer fly over it as it ignores terrain?

2nd. Does the WWP block LoS or gives you a cover save while hiding behind it? As it is Terrain, at least a cover save should apply. Or am I missing something?



Thanks for your advice!

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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 11:42

1st: yes skimmers can fly over they just cant end there movement on it.
2nd: I think the general consensus is that it does not block LoS or grant a cover save.

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Guidebot
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 12:47

@lululu_42 wrote:
1st: yes skimmers can fly over they just cant end there movement on it.
2nd: I think the general consensus is that it does not block LoS or grant a cover save.

Is that so? I heard that generally people assume that it does block LOS (as one might imagine a dimensional portal should?).

Mostly I see people using those winds of magic templates from fantasy to represent these, which I think provides a reasonable blockage of LOS (a hemisphere, not very tall, correct diameter).
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 13:02

If they are using the winds of magic templates, they are giving themselves quite the nice little advantage! The winds of magic templates represent a large blast template. The WWP should be using the small blast template.

That being said, if you use a suitable marker for it (like the one GW produced or something of the correct size) then it does indeed block LOS.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 13:26

/\
Exactly.

One thing - rules allow You to stay on top of impassible terrain IF model can fly there and be placed there.

Yes, that's poor game design if models physic make rules.

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 14:00

@Archeonlotet wrote:
If they are using the winds of magic templates, they are giving themselves quite the nice little advantage! The winds of magic templates represent a large blast template. The WWP should be using the small blast template.

That being said, if you use a suitable marker for it (like the one GW produced or something of the correct size) then it does indeed block LOS.

Sorry, maybe I meant the void grenade templates? They were the small blast size, and looked all cool so I just assumed they were the winds of magic templates. Maybe they were home-brew, pretty awesome.
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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 16 2011, 16:08

I have seen some pretty awesome homebrew WWPs made out of whiffle balls that were cut in half. I haven't checked the diameter of a whiffle ball so I'm not sure if that is legal... but they looked awesome!

I really wish I could use the fantasy winds of magic templates, seeing as I have them and they have sat in the box since they arrived at my house. Excepting the one time I took them out to look at how neat they were.
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Tanhausen
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 19 2011, 16:27

In my book, they do not provide LOS cover.

It says (translating and from memory): place a small blast marker.

So yes, GW sells you there vortex whatever at 8 euros a piece, but they don't provide LOS so they're confusing people.

The only "terrain" issue with the WWP is that its impassible for non-flying models.

Good Hunting!
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 19 2011, 17:01

Read True LOS article and look at original marker. I can find a reason why it shouldnt provide cover.

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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 19 2011, 22:19

If GW themselves produce an opaque product that is called "Dark Eldar Webway Portal" and by the codex is impassable terrain, I cannot see why it would not block LOS. I'm not using a proxy to gain an unfair advantage. The codex also states to use a spare blast template or a similarly sized counter.

GW fools lots of people with lots of things, but true LOS is true LOS. I can't slap down a wizard's fortress to use as my WWP (as much as I might like to! lol) but that is not its intended use.

All that aside, it is fairly difficult to use the portal to gain cover as it is not very big. Maybe I should shorten the clear flying stands in an attempt to hide my Venoms behind it!
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Kesharq
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 23 2011, 11:44

My cheesy tactic was:

Turn 1:
Venom with Haem (he has the WWP) + 3 TB w/ 3 Blaster move 12", Haem nad unit disembark separate (pain marker with the TB)

H WWW
Venom

TB Warriors kill a vehicle, now the Haem drops his WWP

..WWP
..WWP
H WWW
Venom

Now the TB get Coversave/WWP blocks LoS quite easily - all under the assumption, that the WWP blocks LoS or gives you a coversave.

----------
Ok, as the Codex says, I have to use the blastmarker (flat small template) - no LoS blocked, no cover save - I need to come up with another cheesy tactic Smile

Perhaps using Wracks instead of Blasterborn



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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 23 2011, 15:16

The codex does not say you may only use a blast template. It says you may also use a similarly sized counter. As GW actually produced a model for the webway portal, I would assume that falls under the category of similarly sized counter.
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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 23 2011, 21:19

The codex says small blast marker and to avoid arguments about line of sight with my opponent i just use flat ones. ( got to give them a glimpse of hope before i snuff it out Twisted Evil )

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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 23 2011, 21:22

@Kesharq wrote:
My cheesy tactic was:
Ok, as the Codex says, I have to use the blastmarker (flat small template) - no LoS blocked, no cover save - I need to come up with another cheesy tactic Smile

Perhaps using Wracks instead of Blasterborn

Try Deploying behind the venom or if you use a Raider when you turn the raider side ways you are deploying the WWP behind it using the Raider for cover.

Something like this

Raider
p p

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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 24 2011, 07:17

I guess I'm having a difficult time understanding where people can argue the LoS issue. GW makes a model called "Dark Eldar Webway Portal". If an opponent tells you that you cannot use it, do you then ask them if you may use your "Dark Eldar Raider" to represent your Dark Eldar Raider?
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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 24 2011, 09:40

It was more of one person ruined it. I placed my home made WWP dome down and asked if he could go through it. I said it was impassible terrain. He then argued that then LOS came up he argued it didnt block LOS and i didnt want to deal with it so i just use some flat blast markers to make my life easier. I dont play the person anymore because he was convinced that the land raiders flamer nullifies FNP

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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 24 2011, 13:45

Some people take this game faaaaaaar too seriously. It sucks that you had to deal with one of them. In the case of the land raider, if he was talking about the flamestorm cannons on a land raider redeemer.. they actually do nullify FNP against T3 targets Razz
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 24 2011, 13:46

Well Flamestorm cannon from LR Redeemer does indeed nulify most of our FNP, cause its double-strenght. Coven stuff will still have it.

As for your rule bending , well , if one person bully his way throu rules doesnt mean they become correct.You can just buy original model or make similiary sized half-sphere.

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lululu_42
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 25 2011, 00:25

Well from what I remember reading somewhere was that the debat was because the GW wwp models was limited release which is why there some contraversy about it. I think it was on dakka but they came to the conclusion of basiclly asking the TO. I think the portals should block los since 40k uses true line. It was something like that.

Yea he shot my wracks and i didnt bother arguing since he tryed to argue my reavers caltroping is purifier squad hidding in a no roof bunker even after i told him he gets a cover save. I just eanwted the game to end by then. I dont play with him or his group at all. So my experince is slowly getting better.

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clidefr0g
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 06:20


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod900174a&setLocale=en_AU

WWP-Questions M1460556a_99220112001_DarkEldarWebwayPortalWSL_445x319
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 07:26

To be honest I don't believe it should block LoS via rules.

Rule say "place spare blast template or similarary sized counter"

First, blast templates are flat.
Second, IMHO counter =/= model, terrain etc. Closest things are "decoration models". Not sure if that term was covered in Rulebook (probably in Codex: Orks), but they don't block LoS.
Unless pain tokens block LoS too?

Actually... I'm not sure IF that make huge difference. It's half sphere with 3" diameter, so max 1.5" high. To be honest You MAY get cover (from 50% covereage) for 5-6 man squad. No cover for MCs, nor Scourges, nor Bikers, nor vehicles (well, Rhino may get it).

Also, why? You want go forward, not backward. Unless I'm missing something about it.

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Marquis Vaulkhere
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 07:41

I made replicas of the GW release and I play true line of sight. I drop it from a haemi and then hide him behind it until my next turn or whenever my wracks come out. He leaves his pain token with whom ever he rode up with and then shares the wracks so everyone gets FNP. Sorry I went off topic but the point was the rule book says true line of sight and GW released a model for it. You can go back and forth all day so I say to each his own.

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Archeonlotet
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 07:54

This debate as to whether or not the webway blocks LoS has gone beyond silly. The webway portal counts as impassable terrain. GW has marketed a model to represent the webway portal. Can you see through GW's model they have marketed and sold? No... it is opaque. If it was absolutely, no questions asked, meant to be a flat template.. they would have made it that way or kept it in the rules to use a small blast template. That is not what they have in the codex, nor is it what they sold to people to use to represent the webway portal.

I ask again if we cannot use the webway portal as sold by GW themselves, then I suppose we need to toss out all of our other GW models as they surely must not count either.
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hellios
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 08:38

This may sound nuts to some of you but... Lets say I put wings on a DP that actually matched the size and bulk of said model... they would be huge... and if they were spread they could block LOS to a couple of tanks... and that would be all legal... even better they wouldn't count for drawing LoS to the DP...

So I don't see a huge issue with the web way portal blocking LoS... Still not as funny as trapping units with web way portals...
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: WWP-Questions   WWP-Questions I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 26 2011, 10:02

Quote :
This may sound nuts to some of you but... Lets say I put wings on a DP that actually matched the size and bulk of said model... they would be huge...
And they wouldn't count, because it said so specifically in Rulebook in LOS section.

Quote :
Still not as funny as trapping units with web way portals...
WHich you can't do because of the FAQ.

Mates, just play by the rules, ok? There is enough of them to not invent your own.
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