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krayd
Niurvindol
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Niurvindol
Hellion
Niurvindol


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PostSubject: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06 2022, 10:30

*list below*

So I’ve been playing for a little over a year now and mostly against space marines and necron.
I’m wondering if anyone has some protips on ways to improve gameplay.

The problems I’m running into are a little obsec and removing bigger units from objectives aswell as making sure my HQ and incubi are hitting first without being able to move a transport and drop them off being rather difficult.
I’m seeing a 50/50 win rate and would like to improve. My hq are not doing as much as they should with auras and the like due to transports and being shot out, incubi are solid, but I’m losing a squad before melee usually every game.
My kabalites and scourges are doing MSU and getting it done but not much else and my wracks hold objectives but don’t kill; while my grots are hitting bigger enemies and tying up infantry and honestly being the best part of my list.
*I have a big problem with getting my Succubus killed early*
I am generally keeping my Succubus raider and scourges high in the sky


My go to strategy has been to wipe out enemy obsec and hero’s if I can, then move in with my scalpel while grots tie up enemy elites.

I don’t have a lot of information on how high level drukhari players are getting it done, but if anyone has insight I’d love to hear it.

All-in-all, how can force objectives or use my scalpel more effectively to remove enemy hqs and key units while holding the line.

*transports are usually set up as follows*
-raider/ drazhar, 10x incubi
-raider/ archon, 5x incubi, 5x wracks
-raider/ succubus, 5x grots
-venom/ 5x Kabalite warriors


++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [62 PL, 1,077pts, 5CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

Obsession: Kabal of the Black Heart: Thirst for Power

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ HQ +

Archon [4 PL, 75pts, -1CP]: As Detachment (Kabal), Blast Pistol, Labyrinthine Cunning, Overlord, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition, Venom Blade

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]: As Detachment (Kabal)
. 3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Warrior w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites +

Incubi [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Klaive

Incubi [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Klaive

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [8 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge w/ shardcarbine
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 130pts]: As Detachment (Kabal), 3x Dark Lance

Ravager [8 PL, 130pts]: As Detachment (Kabal), 3x Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 110pts]: As Detachment, Chain-snares, Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 110pts]: As Detachment, Chain-snares, Dark Lance

Raider [6 PL, 110pts]: As Detachment, Dark Lance, Shock Prow

Venom [5 PL, 90pts]: As Detachment, Chain-snares, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [12 PL, 230pts, -2CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost

Obsession: The Coven of Twelve: Butchers of Flesh

Obsession: Cult of Strife: The Spectacle of Murder

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Prizes from the Dark City [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Succubus [5 PL, 95pts, -1CP]: 1 - Adrenalight (Combat Drug), Competitive Edge, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition, The Triptych Whip, Wych Cult of Strife
. Agoniser & Archite Glaive
. Show Stealer (Strife): Show Stealer

+ Troops +

Wracks [3 PL, 45pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Acothyst: Hexrifle, Wrack Blade
. 4x Wracks: 4x Wrack Blade

+ Elites +

Incubi [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Klaive

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [37 PL, 690pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost

Obsession: The Coven of Twelve: Butchers of Flesh

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ HQ +

Drazhar [8 PL, 145pts]: Hatred Eternal, Warlord

+ Troops +

Wracks [3 PL, 65pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive Whip, Liquifier Gun
. Wrack w/ Special Weapon: Liquifier Gun
. 3x Wracks: 3x Wrack Blade

Wracks [3 PL, 65pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive Whip, Liquifier Gun
. Wrack w/ Special Weapon: Liquifier Gun
. 3x Wracks: 3x Wrack Blade

Wracks [3 PL, 65pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Acothyst: Electrocorrosive Whip, Liquifier Gun
. Wrack w/ Special Weapon: Liquifier Gun
. 3x Wracks: 3x Wrack Blade

+ Elites +

Grotesques [10 PL, 175pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver

Grotesques [10 PL, 175pts]: As Detachment (Coven)
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver
. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver

++ Total: [111 PL, 1,997pts, 3CP] ++

Created with BattleScribe
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 12 2022, 14:20

I'd love to help you but i'm not a competitive player at all.
Sadly for you the forum is pretty calm as of late, Drukhari players seems to have lost faith in the game in the current state Wink

Sadly the recent Armor of Contempt ability shown on every space marine is slowly killing our codex.
Already we did not have THAT much AP on our units, now they still decrease it.

Sadly our game is to kill before being seen since we can easily be blown away like leaves in the wind.
The never Stationary stratagem is pure gold, but since the decrease in command point at the start of the game + the CPs we have to spend to get our Warlord Trait/Relic (which we crucially need) make it almost impossible now to play recurrently our 2cp strats.

As of late, i like to drop my Archon near my Incubis (the RR HR of 1 aura apply to Incubi) instead of keeping him inside the KAbalite transport (useless since inside transport the auras are shut down) and after that keep it close to the Incubis to benefit from the look out sir rule.
The relic (or warlord trait, i don't remember) that allows to refound CP is now a must.

To simplify things, you need to be at your top level in regards to commanding your army if you want to increase your 50% win rate (which is already pretty good i must say).

Well, i'm pretty sure you'll receive more ProsTips from other far better players.
@fisheyes is one i have to say i really like the inputs he brings as a competitive player.

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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 12 2022, 15:35

Uhm, you take a CoS detachement with a Mastersuccubus. So Bloodbribes would be a nice surprise.
They usually fight first, they have AP-3 for Bladeartist and prevent from falling back.

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Niurvindol
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2022, 01:29

Kalmah wrote:
I'd love to help you but i'm not a competitive player at all.
Sadly for you the forum is pretty calm as of late, Drukhari players seems to have lost faith in the game in the current state Wink

Sadly the recent Armor of Contempt ability shown on every space marine is slowly killing our codex.
Already we did not have THAT much AP on our units, now they still decrease it.

Sadly our game is to kill before being seen since we can easily be blown away like leaves in the wind.
The never Stationary stratagem is pure gold, but since the decrease in command point at the start of the game + the CPs we have to spend to get our Warlord Trait/Relic (which we crucially need) make it almost impossible now to play recurrently our 2cp strats.

As of late, i like to drop my Archon near my Incubis (the RR HR of 1 aura apply to Incubi) instead of keeping him inside the KAbalite transport (useless since inside transport the auras are shut down) and after that keep it close to the Incubis to benefit from the look out sir rule.
The relic (or warlord trait, i don't remember) that allows to refound CP is now a must.

To simplify things, you need to be at your top level in regards to commanding your army if you want to increase your 50% win rate (which is already pretty good i must say).

Well, i'm pretty sure you'll receive more ProsTips from other far better players.
@fisheyes is one i have to say i really like the inputs he brings as a competitive player.

Dropping the archon behind my incubi rush is something I actually had some luck doing this last go around.
I may have been misplaying him a little by looking for shooting kills instead of pushing the melee with those amazing incubi.

That CP refund is labrynthine cunning, which I am taking, but also not seeing a lot of success with due to it only hitting on 6s and I’m debating taking animus vitae or pumping up the archon in melee a little bit for more consistent scoring
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Niurvindol
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2022, 01:32

Zenotaph wrote:
Uhm, you take a CoS detachement with a Mastersuccubus. So Bloodbribes would be a nice surprise.
They usually fight first, they have AP-3 for Bladeartist and prevent from falling back.

I have debated taking more wych cult stuff.
Maybe some reavers and hellions backed by bloodbrides.

Honestly I’m a little opposed to taking ap-1 units with the armor of contempt rule in play though.
It really put wyches out on the bench when you’re paying 10-11 points per model that just get shot off the table
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2022, 15:53

I thought about it, but Bloodbrides should still be fine. Maybe Dissies on your Raiders.
They cost 5pts less and S5 Ap-3 D2 with 3 shots could really work on Marines and Necrons.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17 2022, 17:38

Sadly for me the Archon is more or less an utility unit with some auras or CP farming.
I never had any luck with my Archon, be it in combat or in range.
Usually Drazhar and/or Succubus are there to fill that role

And glad to see that i'm not the only one having a hard time rolling 6s Wink

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Niurvindol
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2022, 08:28

Zenotaph wrote:
I thought about it, but Bloodbrides should still be fine. Maybe Dissies on your Raiders.
They cost 5pts less and S5 Ap-3 D2 with 3 shots could really work on Marines and Necrons.

I don’t hate that idea.
I am however a little concerned with how I’d be able to take out units like silent king or Celestine without a decent bit of darklances on the table.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18 2022, 13:41

With your Ravagers? They got 6 of them. Obsidian Rose give additional range.
Maybe fit out your Scourges with Blasters or Heatlances instead of Shredders.
Since Shredders are Ap-1, they lost a lot of value due to AoC.

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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2022, 16:13

Thoughts on the list:
The wracks you have don’t really need the liquifiers.  I’ve found that just having the whip for the extra attacks is at most what I want to pay for with an objective camping squad,

I can highly recommend adding liquifiers to a grotesque unit, they are very awesome there!  

I would remove the succubus for a heamonclus, You have lots of the army that can benefit from the his aura, (especially the grotesques),  and I’ve found that I’m usually happier if they are foot slogging as opposed to being transported in the raider.

I would also suggest consolidating 2 of the wracks squads into a unit of ten with the heamoxcites upgrade, that with a unit of grotesques (with liquifiers) is my go to combo for clearing an objective and/or denying it to my opponent (for this squad I like adding the hex rifle and 2 ossifactors, the goal is to use these 2 damage good ap weapons to kill a single marine, that opens up prey on the weak ).


Also, a cronos, just 1 to open up the pain siphon strat, one of my favorite things is getting my liquifiers grotesques to clear screaming unit with their liquifiers and then get the turn 5 bonuses for power from pain (including advance and charge).  It can really speed up the unit in the early game and often is such a surprise it can put my opponent on the back foot.

I also play the coven of twelve if only for the extra AP on the grotesques, but I am considering moving to prophets, with the AoC change the extra AP is less useful on them, and even though the ability has a cap at str 8, it can still be useful for what my grotesques usually fear- auto cannonish weapons.


Last edited by RisingDusk on Thu Aug 25 2022, 21:03; edited 1 time in total
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2022, 17:40

RisingDusk wrote:

I also play the coven of twelve if only for the extra AP on the grotesques, but I am considering moving to prophets, with the AoC change the extra AP is less useful on them, and even though the ability has a cap at str 8, it can still be useful for what my grotesques usually fear- auto cannonish weapons.

Remember, wracks are -1AP by default, so Coven of Twelve puts them at -2AP (and puts Grots at -3AP) so it *is* more useful vs. AoC.
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RisingDusk
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25 2022, 21:07

I only run Liquififer grots so I'm staring down ap -1 on their flesh gauntlets.  While those cleavers do look nice I love the ability to clear chaff and then get all suped up from a near buy cronos.  

I've found its a great wedge to send up the middle of the board, with a heamonclus in tow in order to give the toughness boost   (usually with the heal 3 wounds WL trait)    

Add a unit of heamoxcytes for OBsec/plink damage and i've found its a tool that works well for exerting board control

I usually run
1 heamonclus
2x 5 elf wrack units with whip
10 heamoxcytes with wip, hex and 2 ossofactors
6 grotesques with liquifiers
1 cronos

which comes to 630/2000 for my lists but its become such a good center that I'm having a hard time moving away from that core part of my list.
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RisingDusk
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 26 2022, 15:40

As far as the Archon goes:

Poison Tongue

I like mine in a raider with a 5 man incubi unit and a 4 sslyth and 1 lemean court
I prefer the soul helm and the Acient Evil (fight last) WLT

His aura is nice for the incuibi and the court and having the guarantee fight last can allow his retinue to do some work (and if i'm feeling lucky i can charge 2 units and hopefully get the fight last with the help of trophies on the raider)

I use them as a "gap filler" to find where my plan isn't going so good and them zoom over there and provide a good balance of dead killy and dead 'ard

other than just a stock agnoizer and a blast pistol hes more about the utility than any attempt to kill himself. And I always use the 2nd fight ability in my first combat with him with the -1 to hit from the helm and the +5 shrug he's just about tanky enough to survive 1 fight phase.

From your list I don't see any "gap filler" units and it can be a little as 5 bare bones wyches in a venom, just something you can keep back and safe until you force your opponent to commit there forces somewhere (usually around turn 3 is when I start looking for where to go)

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 26 2022, 16:18

Poisoned Tongue Archon? With what Weapons?

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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 26 2022, 17:16

stock agnoizer and a blast pistol, I like the extra AP from the agnoizer over any other weapon, and with poison tongue he wounds on +3 so it makes the venom blade look pointless, you only get a slightly better wound roll and a serious lack of AP,  and the only time the power sword out preforms an agnoizer is VS toughness 2, which isn't a big sell.

The huskblade is in a weird spot, IT does have dam 2, butt you're only str 3 and -2 ap. With the only reason to take a stock huskblade is to kill marines (or at least I think so, with the relic slot taken up by the helm) and the new AOC change, str 3 dam 2 ap -1 does not seem like the best option for slicing and dicing.


As for the blast pistol, its the best pistol in the game so I always take on my HQ when I can.
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 27 2022, 15:36

As a Comp player, I think your question is one of positioning and pressure.

To start off, lets discuss our overall strategy as a DE player. We need to score VPs, which is pretty difficult for us (compared to the newer armies). IMO, the usual picks are Engage, RND, and Take Them Alive.

This means we need to have fast units to be in 3 table quarters every turn, plant RND in 3 table quarters (with Mandrakes to attempt on the 4th quarter). Lastly, we have TTA, which means we need to kill stuff in Close Combat.

We generally accomplish this by pushing up into mid-board on Turn 1, getting ready for mass charges on Turn 2.

You say you have difficulty scoring due to your transports blowing up. IMO, this is likely due to your positioning on Turn 1. You need to overload their ability to kill you by positioning out of LOS and only exposing units that can survive a Charge. This will be your Incubi hiding in Raiders and the Grotesques (who are best as Artists of the Flesh or Profets of Flesh for the durability).

This gives your opponent a hard choice to make. They can kill the Raiders (which will leave all your combat units ready to Charge on Turn 2), or they can attack the Grots (and hopefully under commit to killing them) leaving the Incubi ready to do their thing.

The point is to give the opponent hard choices, none of which are good. Redundancy is key, and shooting units dont add much to this plan.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 27 2022, 16:41

fisheyes wrote:


To start off, lets discuss our overall strategy as a DE player. We need to score VPs, which is pretty difficult for us (compared to the newer armies). IMO, the usual picks are Engage, RND, and Take Them Alive.

I am finding that Engage, at least, as currently written in Nephilim, is a bit of a trap. The added 6" distance requirement actually does make it more difficult, to an unexpected degree. Lately, I've had more luck with Behind Enemy Lines (as long as my opponent doesn't get a jump on me to box me in at the beginning of the game), as units like Mandrakes or Scourges can drop in, do RND, and score for Behind Enemy Lines.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 28 2022, 01:52

Ah!! I think, I love this guy. I preached the PT Archon for quite a while.
I like him with 'Consumate Weaponsmaster' . He hits on 2+, he wounds on 3+ auto.
He deals auto 2D per hit. He has a -1 to hit and a 5+++.

Ok, the fckng Djinnblade is better, I give you that. But the other build is a lot sturdier.
And he can whip a Tank apart. Really.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 29 2022, 15:29

@zenotaph i agree with you that i also had some fun with the PT archon using Consumate Weaponsmaster.
Now i try to play my Archon more as a utility character (farming CP and sharing his auras), but i remember some good time using the PT Archon! I'm not a big fan of the Djinnblade version (or should i say i just never succeeded in doing anything with him).
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RisingDusk
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PostSubject: Re: Advice on Game Strat   Advice on Game Strat I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 30 2022, 22:13

I can totally see how a more aggressive PT archon could be a lot of fun. I just feel that as far a combat characters go the archon is middle of the road, even the djinn blade+hatred combo (which personally is pretty killy, but has its limits-custodes espically) and that not a bad thing, but more of a thought to keep in mind when throwing him into combat.

I would say in the end, as far as general play goes:

Our army, more than any other, requires a good idea of how you're going to move in the first 2 turns. The army is great at aggressive moves, but you really don't want to make them until turn 2 (advance and charge is key) . Getting the extra inches of movement is huge when it comes to getting into combat and the army has great single target damage (dark lances) but does struggle to mow down hordes with our basic firepower (as its has been beaten into the ground, splinter fire is quite average). The easiest way to deal with large units with low wounds would be with combat troops, and we have 2 of our 3 troops choices being geared for this. The next time you play try to come up with a movement plan for turns 1 and 2, that for turn 1 gives you units the best defensive position (ideally out of LOS of anything that can do damage, like hiding your raiders from las cannons even if it exposes them to bolter fire) AND gives you a chance to move to the center of the board with something durable (like those grotesques with a hamonclus toughness buddy) One of the biggest traps i found myself playing into is relying on the ability for our army to do extreme damage, and trying to capitalize it on turn 1. This does not play well as our army is IMO the flimsiest one of all the 40k army's out there, and trying to play the endurance game in a fire fight will end badly (or at least it has for me historically). Forcing your opponent to come to you, and controlling where that is will give you this opportunity-taking on isolated parts of there army with enough force to wipe it out.

TLDR- don't be too aggressive on turn 1 and 2, and use our mobility to force your opponent to split there army so you can destroy the smaller parts piecemeal

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