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 It’s kind of Bugging me

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Burnage
Zenotaph
Niurvindol
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Niurvindol
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Niurvindol


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PostSubject: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 08:17

Ok, we’ve all seen the lists and deukhari aren’t exactly the breadwinners they were six months ago.
But how do we deal with this new tyranid takeover?
Part of me wants to say that we just wait it out, I’d rather not.

So with the new marine buffs and this huge bug buff, how can we deal with both (obviously dealing mostly with the hive)
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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 12:45

Uh, well, I would say, same as always. Efficient trading, massive Darklight from far away
and rolling higv for your FnP against mortal wounds.

Sorry, but nothing else comes to mind. Wink

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 14:01

Honestly, IDK if its possible (in a Comp setting).

Nid players will take Stranglehold, Warp Ritual, TTL.

Every turn they will come forward with a Neurothrope/Flying Hive Tyrant to get Warp Ritual, then run away at the end of their turn so you cant kill the model doing the Ritual.

They will come forward with Fly units to score Stranglehold, then run away at the end of their turn after they score it, so you cant kill the unit scoring.

And they will have their TTL hiding in the back field.

We would need to survive getting hit by 2 Harpies, one of which will likely fly away at the end of their turn. Then we would need to run into their DZ on Turn 1 to insta kill the second wave of Ritual/Strangle units. While also killing their TTL. Then survive the counter attack, and do it again.

We can try to outscore them with TTL, Investigate Signal, and Stranglehold. But we cant survive multiple turns of Harpies/Flying Hive Tyrants while also killing their TTL.

Ive built skew lists that are designed JUST to kill Nids, and I still lose. Plus lose into everything else. Now I just ignore that Nids exist, and try to play the rest of the field.

Sorry I couldent be more helpful.

(BTW, in a Casual/Friendly setting, Nids are just overpowered and not impossible. But you need to discuss with your opponent before the match to make it fun)
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 14:31

another good strategy is to have all your rolls be 6 and your opponents rolls be 1.
Seriously Nids are plainly game breaking right now, it's plainly ridiculous.
They just do everything better than everyone at cheap point cost (all praise the playtesting team of GW!!).

As for the new buff to SM, i would say just do as we always did: play the victory points, don't even try to go face on with the opponent's army unless you absolutely need to.
Coven and Incubi are good damage dealer with their relatively high AP but everything else is there only to take/hold/score secondary objectives

But i must say this buff for Armor of Contempt was really needed for SM (but seriously they should just added the clause that this buff only applies to infantry units)
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 14:33

Yeah, I genuinely don't think pure DE have a good response to the current Tyranids - they out-move us, out-shoot us, out-melee us, out-tank us and have a ridiculously powerful psychic phase. "Wait for nerfs" is unhelpful but might be the best actual answer.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 15:30

Kalmah wrote:


But i must say this buff for Armor of Contempt was really needed for SM (but seriously they should just added the clause that this buff only applies to infantry units)

Armor of Contempt *should* have only applied to weapons below S8. It doesn't sit well with me that standard marines can pass armor saves vs lances and lascannons.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeThu May 12 2022, 16:10

krayd wrote:
Kalmah wrote:


But i must say this buff for Armor of Contempt was really needed for SM (but seriously they should just added the clause that this buff only applies to infantry units)

Armor of Contempt *should* have only applied to weapons below S8. It doesn't sit well with me that standard marines can pass armor saves vs lances and lascannons.

i agree on that, a little bit like our AoF obsession.....again, this bonus would have needed a little bit more workaround from the playtesting team Wink
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeFri May 13 2022, 13:20

Honestly, the main problem I have with Nids isnt their ridiculous undercosted units, or massive overpowered psykic/shooting/combat, its their ability to be uninteractive.

Being able to score points, then run away so we cant kill those scoring units breaks the game. Armies SHOULD be able to go out and score points, but there should be a cost to it (beyond a reuseable 1CP strat, and a second 1CP strat)

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeFri May 13 2022, 14:01

Sorry for the double post, but Nids just got a FAQ

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/MlX8DsXkD19YhnUE.pdf

Two interesting changes

1 - Encircle has had a pretty large nerf, now happens at the end of the Movement instead of end of the Turn. Very important, and a bigger nerf than I was expecting

2 - Synapse is now an Aura. Unfortunately due to wording, it appears that Poisoners Ampule still cant turn it off, but COULD imply that we could use the Ampule to turn off Synaptic Link? Im not 100% on that though.

Nids still need point adjustments, and still the best army in the game. But the most broken thing (Encircle) is now dead. So thats something.
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeFri May 13 2022, 14:07

Uh, if its an Aura, I dont see why the Poisoners Ampule couldnt turn it off.

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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeFri May 13 2022, 14:56

The wording of the Levi transhuman is a Synapse Unit. So the Harpie would still have the Transhuman, but the other nearby units would not.

I read thru the various pages this morning to confirm, because my first thought was "Oh, I can kill this thing now?!"
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: It’s kind of Bugging me   It’s kind of Bugging me I_icon_minitimeSat May 14 2022, 00:15

fisheyes wrote:
Honestly, the main problem I have with Nids isnt their ridiculous undercosted units, or massive overpowered psykic/shooting/combat, its their ability to be uninteractive.

Being able to score points, then run away so we cant kill those scoring units breaks the game. Armies SHOULD be able to go out and score points, but there should be a cost to it (beyond a reuseable 1CP strat, and a second 1CP strat)

The fundamental problem that drives a lot of this is TTL is a horrible secondary and it's genuinely baffling to me that it's still around. Not only is it the most common secondary taken by far (because of how brainless it is), it dictates SO MUCH of competitive list building, and it encourages non-interactive play. 


I'm not sure why GW wants to encourage death star units, min/maxed list building, and boring games but they really do.

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