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 Dealing with psychic heavy armies

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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte


Posts : 82
Join date : 2013-05-14

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PostSubject: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 29 2022, 00:05

Curious what are really our options for a Drukhari only list running vs armies like Thousand Sons. Playing vs an army that uses multiple psykers that can move 18+ and psychic phase all your vehicles to death while all having invuls. I got rolled pretty hard by a list, but wasn't sure what to do with this, along with the teleporting 10 man flamer squad wounding vehicles on a 2-3 and getting around 25 to 30 auto hits. I'm an old returning player and only played a few games this edition, but the 2 games vs a player with a psychic phase has been rough. I can also post my list if needed
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RisingDusk
Slave
RisingDusk


Posts : 21
Join date : 2020-04-22
Location : Phoenix, AZ

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 29 2022, 17:07

This comes from the perspective of fighting Grey Knights.

I've found that the best option for playing the game vs a psychic heavy army is:

user your mobility to screen out the teleport spell shenanigans. If they don't have anywhere t teleport it becomes less of an issue and you only need 2 5 man wrack squads to spread out on objectives and some small 3rd unit (i use my beastmaster most often) to help fill the gaps, preventing the deep strike-remember you can maximize your coverage by spacing as close to 2" apart with each model so you can get a big swath with a small unit, the key is to do it after turn 1 so that they have a low target priority and so don't get shot.

Take the helm of spite, but not to stop an important spell, but to stop the scoring shenanigans. Most psychic actions have a casting value of 4 or 5, and often the controlling player won't want to waste a re-roll for a higher value to avoid the deny. It helps deny points towards victory and it can help draw out those re-rolls and casting buff strats in order to boost the action instead of boosting an offensive/defensive spell. Its about getting your opponent make bad choices by spending CP on the action instead of damage/resiliency because you denied their psychic interrogate and did some mortals to some random sorcerer in turn 1. The shock value of having a deny, and one that can hurt, that the opponent was not expecting can make the helm a very 'shock value' item-it will make your opponent begin to overthink their already over complicated psychic phase.

Just ignore them, really. The thing about psychic armies is that they need those powers in order to even the playing field and get them to a place where they can complete in the game. The teleport is a perfect example for the Tsons. while they do have options that are mobile, they lack durability. The teleport is a way for them to get into the middle of the board (assuming they have been screened) with something that has the ability to hold an objective. If you begin to think about their casting as them trying to "power up" to your level, it can help with the feeling of missing out and/or powerlessness in the face of all that "phenomenal cosmic power" I feel the biggest thing about the psychic phase is not feeling down because your army has no cool space wizards, by remembering that my army doesn't need to rely sometimes buffs to be effective.

That and the perils, its always funny to watch you opponent blow themselves up.
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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte


Posts : 82
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 29 2022, 18:33

I didn't really have a problem with him using psychic actions for objectives, he just used all his powers for like destroying vehicles, which I didn't know how to stop since nightshields, flickerfields, and save are useless against the MW. Also didn't help that I didn't pass a single Inured to Suffering 6+++

His teleporting was just to move a squad that was already on the board to anywhere else on the board 9 inches away from my units, which put him in range with the 10 str 6 flamers at d6 a piece. I only had a couple vehicles and 6 reavers on board.

Helm of spite would be nice, but doesn't that only work vs 1 power a phase? He had like 5-6 psykers each casting 3-4 powers a piece. We are playing crusade so unless I start my Archon back at 0 xp which means no Master Archon, I can't take Helm of Spite at this point.

The highest warp charge he used was a 7 or 8 and that was only on Smite (cause how many times he casted it) then a 7 for a normal power, but with a +1 to all psychic test due to being Thousand Sons and having a free re-roll, he only failed 1 test out of like 12-16 casted. I don't mind not having the psychic powers, but trying to find a way to stop theirs, too bad I can't just shoot them with my lances with them being characters or part of a squad.

Maybe if I had taken some Disintegrator Cannons to throw against all his 2 would models, but being a crusade I can't tailor my list. I feel if I could tailor my list per opponent then I wouldn't struggle as much. So how would I know when I have enough darklight for a certain PL so I can swap other stuff to Cannons for general come all lists??
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RisingDusk
Slave
RisingDusk


Posts : 21
Join date : 2020-04-22
Location : Phoenix, AZ

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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 29 2022, 20:06

For him using his powers to do damage to your vehicles their really isn't much you can do. With the only option to deny any psyhic power limited to once per phase (you are correct that you only get 1 deny)

the helm of spite is a standard relic, you can take it on your starting warlord (our other fancy hat the soul helm is limited to master archon but its the -1 to being hit and +5 FNP)

The helm of spite really the armies only option to participate int he psychic phase directly. otherwise their is 1 strat you can use in your own psychic phase.

The crucible of malediction, it requires a heamonclus, costs 2 CP, but can cause a TON of mortal wounds, it causes all psyker units w/i 12 to suffer d3 mortals on a +4, so it will hit both the unit and the character and it applies to everybody. It is a wargear strat so if your crusade gets you the weapon forges bonus for owning 3 districts you can instead use it for 0CP. As cool as it is, you only get it once per battle.

However you hit the other nail on the head. we can participate in the psychic phase by killing the psykers casting the powers, but part of that is list building. Whats is in your current crusade? How do you organize the units when you play

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Shadowharte
Hellion
Shadowharte


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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 29 2022, 21:10

It was a 63 PL game, unfortunately for me the Relic I took before knowing that in crusade relics cannot be swapped out is Soulhelm. I also have 0 Coven units, I would kill for some Coven right now tbh they would help drastically.

My current list has 1 Master Archon, 1 Succubus, 10 Trueborn, 5 Wych, 5 Incubi, 5 Mandrake, 2 x 3 Reavers, 5 Scourge, 1 Raider, 1 Ravager, 2 Venoms. I also made the mistake of thinking most people would be running multiple vehicles at this PL, this guy had 0, so I have darklight (including pistols) For every option I could. Blast pistols on every unit besides ones that can't, 2 Blaster and a DL for trueborn, 4 DL for Scourge, DL for raider and ravager, heat lance for reavers. I am running 2 patrol detachments with the kabal obsession being poisoned tongue for the 3+ to wound, definitely regretting that choice considering my poison weapon outside of the Archon's Agoniser was useless.

I found that splinter weapons were freaking useless due to no ap and 1 dmg, I also found that having all that anti tank was kinda useless. It hurt to have no dissi cannons I think cause he had all multi wound + invuls outside of his melee demon horde. I would have loved to just take the psykers out, but when they are all either part of a unit or characters makes them un-targetable unless they are literally the closest model to you right?

His character sorcerers moved faster than my vehicles due to his Floating Disc thing, they were as fast as the reavers. I got within range of his psykers, just couldn't target them. Also couldn't kill off the squads with a psyker in them fast enough to keep my vehicles and bikes alive.

The only thing we have to ignore the unable to target character rule is the Hexrifle right? Which if I remember reading seems kinda lackluster. Is the Crucible of Malediction a one time use or can use each round? The territories I have so far is 1 arena, 1 noble spire, and 1 incubi shrine; so no bonuses yet.

Also, I definitely appreciate you taking time to talk with me about this, I'm not trying to sound salty about the game; just trying to better understand my options.
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PostSubject: Re: Dealing with psychic heavy armies   Dealing with psychic heavy armies I_icon_minitime

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