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 Community made codex - PfP

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The Strange Dark One
Archon_91
alexwellace
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 04 2022, 00:59

Let's start off the community made codex with taking a look at Power from Pain ... all in all this is kind of a boring ability and feels like an excuse to not give our models unique rules and really only plays nice with our melee parts of the army, which the shooty parts really only benefit from turns 1, 4, and 5 ... so let's change it up a bit.

Power from Pain: The Druhkari draw essense from pain, drinking it in invigorates their very soul. The more they inflict or have inflicted on them the more of a frenzy they are whipped into. The wych cult arenas are a place within the Dark city many frequent to sste their thist but when that isnt enough raids into realspace are planned, the pain cause by battle truely brings these beings to life spuring on morw and more creative and destructive ways of inflicting pain.

Each time an enemy model is slain a number of pain tokens is generated equal to the number of wounds of the slain model.
Tokens can be spent during game setup and during the command phase, Models with the Power from Pain rule benefit from each power purchased, each power costs 15 tokens to purchase. Powers can be purchased in any order and last from when they are purchased until the game ends. Players can choose 2 powers during game set up (these do

Suffering is Bliss: when this power is chosen all models with Power from Pain receive a +1 to feel no pain save. (Models with not feel no pain save receive a 6+ feel no pain)

Heightened sense: when this power is chosen all models can reroll one hit and one wound roll

Frenzied Hunters: when this power is chosen models with Power from Pain may shoot and charge in a turn that they have fallen back

Flurry of suffering: this power can only be chosen if "Suffering is bliss" has been chosen, models with Power from Pain receive an additional +1 to feel no pain saves

Terrifying Visage: when this power is chosen all models with Power from Pain receive "Aura: Enemy models within 3" of a unit with this ability subtract 1 from their leadership"

Lust for Blood: this power can only be chosen if Heightened Senses has been chosen, all models with Power from Pain reroll all failed wound rolls

Attuned to suffering: this power can only be chosen if Lust for blood has been chosen, all models with Power from Pain can reroll all hit rolls

Beastly Fugue: This power can only be chosen if Frenzied Hunters has been chosen, vehicles and mosters don't suffer the penalty for shooting heavy weapons into engagement range, all other models no longer suffer the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons


More ideas can be added to this list or a whole new idea for Power from Pain. What do you all think?
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alexwellace
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 04 2022, 17:08

I like where you're going, but I think I'd like to simplify it.

Way back when, pain tokens were gained by kiing units, and by the end of the game the tattered remains of our squads who've killed a few units where god's of war due to the accumulated pain they've caused. I'd like to bring that back.

But I agree that currently it's too melee focussed.
So I'd recommend doing something like a mixed bag of 6 power from pain bonuses, and whenever a unit kills an enemy unit AND is within 12", that unit may choose a bonus (or roll, in narrative play) to add permenantly to their unit.

Heightened senses - ignore to hit modifiers and when performing overwatch hit on a 5+.

Mantel of agony: 5+ invul or +1 to an existing to a maximum of 4+.

Flensing fury : +1 Ws and proc +1 to proccing Art of Murder

Taste for blood : This unit can advance and charge. If they already could, add +1 to both charge and advance rolls

Insured to suffering : This unit automatically passes moral checks, treats at the highest profile on any wounds table and gains a 5+ shrug against mortal wounds.

Invigorated by eviceration : A model with this rule regains 1 lost wound at the start of each command phase. Models with a single wound gain a 6+ feel no pain.

Having a little grab bag like that means you could make tokens and award them to units who kill people as soon as they kill people, rather than counting up and doing wound accounting.










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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 04 2022, 18:58

I remember those pain tokens Smile, I started back at the the tail end of fifth edition, and thats kind of where I drew inspiration from ... I like the idea of simplifying it ... I was trying to find a way to keep it more in line with the modern feel of the entire army benefits from the gained rules
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 07 2022, 01:19

Some call PfP "Power from Patience" and this is not far from truth. In contrast, the pain-token system from 5th edition was gimmicky, hard to pull off and inconsistent.

PfP should correctly reflect the progress that was made on the battlefield. Counting enemy wounds is one possibility, but this is always skewed towards factions with lots of wounds and low saves. I would also avoid any book keeping of possible.

The easiest way to mirror the battlefield progress is: Victory Points.
I would completely revamp PfP so that Victory Points award either CP or a special form of CP (pain tokens?). It also makes thematic sense, as the (remaining) DE units keep being rejuvenated as the battle goes on.

It makes more sense than having an army-wide patience bonus that unreasonably favours melee combat. What needs to be done in addition are some proper Stratagems which also increase the offensive potential of our ranged units. Advance + Charge should become a Stratagem or just an inert ability which replaces Blade Artists.

Just wanting to paint the greater picture instead of boggeling down into the details.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 16 2022, 08:12

I like the pain toke approach, but I would use them differently. I would put them in a pool (just like you propose) and allow the haemonculi to use them to cast powers in the psychic phase even if they're not psychic powers. The difference between a haemy and an ancient haemonculus is the amount of power available to them.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 16 2022, 16:29

dumpeal wrote:
I like the pain toke  approach, but I would use them differently. I would put them in a pool (just like you propose) and allow the haemonculi to use them to cast powers in the psychic phase even if they're not psychic powers. The difference between a haemy and an ancient haemonculus is the amount of power available to them.

I think it would have to be a little more universal in terms of which characters can 'cast' using pain tokens. Otherwise, we'll run into the Eldar problem - where every list basically has to take a particular HQ as most of the army rules seem to be built around it.

Otherwise, Haemonculi casting abilities should probably be more self-contained, rather than them effectively being the only way to access our army rules.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 17 2022, 17:23

Soulless Samurai wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I like the pain toke  approach, but I would use them differently. I would put them in a pool (just like you propose) and allow the haemonculi to use them to cast powers in the psychic phase even if they're not psychic powers. The difference between a haemy and an ancient haemonculus is the amount of power available to them.

I think it would have to be a little more universal in terms of which characters can 'cast' using pain tokens. Otherwise, we'll run into the Eldar problem - where every list basically has to take a particular HQ as most of the army rules seem to be built around it.

Otherwise, Haemonculi casting abilities should probably be more self-contained, rather than them effectively being the only way to access our army rules.

Well, using the pain to regen/boost dark eldars is the whole point in the covens existing in the first place.

Rule wise, you could extend that to all coven units and not only haemonculi. Just lower kind of power for those.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 19 2022, 01:10

dumpeal wrote:
Soulless Samurai wrote:
dumpeal wrote:
I like the pain toke  approach, but I would use them differently. I would put them in a pool (just like you propose) and allow the haemonculi to use them to cast powers in the psychic phase even if they're not psychic powers. The difference between a haemy and an ancient haemonculus is the amount of power available to them.

I think it would have to be a little more universal in terms of which characters can 'cast' using pain tokens. Otherwise, we'll run into the Eldar problem - where every list basically has to take a particular HQ as most of the army rules seem to be built around it.

Otherwise, Haemonculi casting abilities should probably be more self-contained, rather than them effectively being the only way to access our army rules.

Well, using the pain to regen/boost dark eldars is the whole point in the covens existing in the first place.

Rule wise, you could extend that to all coven units and not only haemonculi. Just lower kind of power for those.

I'm not sure you're understanding my point.

You're taking what is supposed to be an army-wide ability and confining it to, at best, a handful of units.

I'm not opposed to Haemonculi having extra abilities relating to pain token manipulation or special Pain Powers (or whatever we're calling them) that only they know and can cast. But they cannot be the *only* units that can use Pain Tokens.

Not unless we get a different army-wide rule instead and just make Haemonculi our equivalent of psykers with pain-based powers.

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 15 2022, 05:21

I get your point. The army-wide rule is for generating those pain tokens, not using them.
But if you get enough uses of those token (granting victoty points as secondary), having some stratagems costing pain tokens and haemonculi power that benefit non-coven units, it won't be an issue.
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Stea1k
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19 2022, 08:34

Why not take a page from the Harlequins and CWE and instead of trying to alter our unit's base stats, PfP is simply made into a dice modification mechanic?

Power From Pain:

At the start of each command phase, add a number of pain tokens to your Pain Reservoir equal to the value shown below:

0-1000 : 1 pain token
1001-2000: 2 pain tokens
2001-3000: 3 pain tokens

Pain Reservoir:

Once per unit each phase, any time you would make a hit roll, wound roll, save roll, advance roll, charge roll, or morale save roll, you may spend 1 Pain Token from your Pain reservoir to treat 1 dice in that roll as an unmodified 6 (treat as a 1 for morale save rolls). You must assign a token before you roll the dice.

Any time one of the following conditions are met, you immediately gain 1 additional pain token to your pain reservoir (each can only be achieved once per round).

1) An enemy unit fails their morale save
2) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with a poisoned weapon
3) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with melee attacks


My thoughts:

This gives us a sadistic version of SoF/Miracle Dice that has a decent base of power (so you still get something even if you fail the conditions), but feeds on successful progression as you play. I had some concern when writing it about a potential snowball in the late game, but I don't see it being a huge problem with the acquisition cap.

This also give us the opportunity to move the items like "advance + charge" into their own thing.

I like the idea of haemonculi being our psykers, but i think they should just have a built-in pain-fluffed mechanic that just grants DE units temporary buffs like +1 WS or FNP. Just roll 1d6 so they go off on a 3+, etc.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19 2022, 14:11

Stea1k wrote:
Why not take a page from the Harlequins and CWE and instead of trying to alter our unit's base stats, PfP is simply made into a dice modification mechanic?

Power From Pain:

At the start of each command phase, add a number of pain tokens to your Pain Reservoir equal to the value shown below:

0-1000 : 1 pain token
1001-2000: 2 pain tokens
2001-3000: 3 pain tokens

Pain Reservoir:

Once per unit each phase, any time you would make a hit roll, wound roll, save roll, advance roll, charge roll, or morale save roll, you may spend 1 Pain Token from your Pain reservoir to treat 1 dice in that roll as an unmodified 6 (treat as a 1 for morale save rolls). You must assign a token before you roll the dice.

Any time one of the following conditions are met, you immediately gain 1 additional pain token to your pain reservoir (each can only be achieved once per round).

1) An enemy unit fails their morale save
2) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with a poisoned weapon
3) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with melee attacks


My thoughts:

This gives us a sadistic version of SoF/Miracle Dice that has a decent base of power (so you still get something even if you fail the conditions), but feeds on successful progression as you play. I had some concern when writing it about a potential snowball in the late game, but I don't see it being a huge problem with the acquisition cap.

This also give us the opportunity to move the items like "advance + charge" into their own thing.

I really like this idea.

It also gives us the opportunity to tie unit abilities to pain tokens. e.g. the Haemonculus could have one or more abilities that are 'cast' using Pain Tokens.


More of an aside, but I honestly feel this miracle-dice type mechanic would have been far better than CP in providing a (more or less) universal mechanic that different factions use in different ways.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19 2022, 15:41

I wonder if that is what they are going to replace Stratagems with ... I get the feeling they are gonna do away with them in the next addition, but as for the PfP idea ... I think that captures what I was trying to do with it better than I did, could we expand the pool of characters that can use them for things? almost making three "psycic" trees

"Tactica" for kabal

"Combat" for cult

"Enhancement" for coven

Just as a way to vary lists and not always need a haemonculus to access the token use
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19 2022, 16:49

Archon_91 wrote:
I wonder if that is what they are going to replace Stratagems with

Can only hope, tbh. Wink

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 21 2022, 06:01

Stea1k wrote:
Why not take a page from the Harlequins and CWE and instead of trying to alter our unit's base stats, PfP is simply made into a dice modification mechanic?

Power From Pain:

At the start of each command phase, add a number of pain tokens to your Pain Reservoir equal to the value shown below:

0-1000 : 1 pain token
1001-2000: 2 pain tokens
2001-3000: 3 pain tokens

Pain Reservoir:

Once per unit each phase, any time you would make a hit roll, wound roll, save roll, advance roll, charge roll, or morale save roll, you may spend 1 Pain Token from your Pain reservoir to treat 1 dice in that roll as an unmodified 6 (treat as a 1 for morale save rolls). You must assign a token before you roll the dice.

Any time one of the following conditions are met, you immediately gain 1 additional pain token to your pain reservoir (each can only be achieved once per round).

1) An enemy unit fails their morale save
2) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with a poisoned weapon
3) One of your units destroys an enemy unit with melee attacks


My thoughts:

This gives us a sadistic version of SoF/Miracle Dice that has a decent base of power (so you still get something even if you fail the conditions), but feeds on successful progression as you play. I had some concern when writing it about a potential snowball in the late game, but I don't see it being a huge problem with the acquisition cap.

This also give us the opportunity to move the items like "advance + charge" into their own thing.

I like the idea of haemonculi being our psykers, but i think they should just have a built-in pain-fluffed mechanic that just grants DE units temporary buffs like +1 WS or FNP. Just roll 1d6 so they go off on a 3+, etc.

An auto 6 is way too strong. A +1 modifier would be fine.
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Sarcron
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 21 2022, 10:16

I mean... strands of fate is an auto 6, and I'd hardly say that's broken, plus it's a nice nod to being a dark contrast to our weaker cousins

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Stea1k
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PostSubject: Re: Community made codex - PfP   Community made codex - PfP I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 23 2022, 19:50

Soulless Samurai wrote:

It also gives us the opportunity to tie unit abilities to pain tokens. e.g. the Haemonculus could have one or more abilities that are 'cast' using Pain Tokens.

Archon_91 wrote:

could we expand the pool of characters that can use them for things? almost making three "psycic" trees

"Tactica" for kabal

"Combat" for cult

"Enhancement" for coven

Just as a way to vary lists and not always need a haemonculus to access the token use


Agreed! Urien and other named characters/WL traits could also adjust how these tokens are acquired.

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