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 Farewell to Subfaction Soup

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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 14:04

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/war-zone-nachmund-grand-tournament-mission-pack-means-new-tactical-challenges-and-more-exciting-games/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=gtmissionarticle210122&fbclid=IwAR3hU2tQNvFRZrZJwXNb15P8655Mgf6b0COR2F1SFsG0v-rzLcExdLyaLYg

From the article:

Quote :
The biggest change to list building are selectable sub-faction keywords such as <Chapter>. Originally these were picked on a unit-by-unit basis, so squads and Detachments could come from different subfactions. This selection is now made when you start to build your list, and the sub-faction you choose now replaces every example of that keyword – meaning your whole army now has to come from the same grouping.

This keeps your armies – and your opponents’ – from becoming overly complex, ensuring that the unit compositions and synergies you build in your lists can provide an interesting, evolving challenge.

Quote :
There are a handful of exemptions, as you’d expect – named characters have a pre-selected keyword, but are exempt from the restriction, while <Mark of Chaos> and <Allegiance> keywords can also be different – so Bel’akor’s unaligned daemon armies are still viable.

Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments are getting an update too. They now get the Command Benefit of +2 Command Points if the Lord of War choice is not your Warlord, and if it shares a faction with your Warlord (provided it isn’t Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari, or Tyranids). Looks like Monoliths are back on the menu.

It's possible they haven't mentioned it but you might notice no exception is listed here for Dark Eldar. So it's possible we might have to get used to playing armies that are just Kabal, Cult or Coven (not a combination of such).

At the very least, no more mixing different Kabals, Cults or Covens from now on.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 14:22

I for one is ok with the fact that in the same detachment (except RsR) you can't put KAbal and Coven.........but are you saying that in the same ARMY we won't be able to have a detachment with Kabal and another detachment with Coven?.........i sure hope not!!!
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Patayou
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 14:55

"This selection is now made when you start to build your list, and the sub-faction you choose now replaces every example of that keyword"

that's the key phrase here. Form marines, every <chapter> keyword will have to be replaced by, say, <imperial fists>

BUT, we don't have one army tag, we have 3. I think this may forbit us from taking 2 different kabals, or 2 cults, but I think we'll still be able to mix kabal, cults and coven detachment, because of that "keyword" wording.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 15:40

The way it's worded it sounds like all instances of <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, and <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> in our armies are replaced with a single type of each one.
So if you pick Black Heart for your Kabal, all instances of <KABAL> in the codex should be considered replaced by <BLACK HEART> - meaning you can't also have a detachment that replaced <KABAL> with <FLAYED SKULLS>, not that you're disallowed from taking units that don't have the <BLACK HEART>/<KABAL> keyword at all.

Soup should still be on the menu for us and everyone else, it's just that Space Marines never do joint operations between chapters (or rather, <CHAPTER>s) anymore.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 15:45

Kalmah wrote:
I for one is ok with the fact that in the same detachment (except RsR) you can't put KAbal and Coven.........but are you saying that in the same ARMY we won't be able to have a detachment with Kabal and another detachment with Coven?.........i sure hope not!!!

It's a bit unclear, tbh. I'm not sure whether you just have to make global selections for all your <Kabal>, <Cult> etc. units or whether you are restricted to picking a single <Kabal>/<Cult>/<Coven> and anything that can't conform to that isn't allowed at all.

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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21 2022, 21:47

Tactical Tortious had a vid with the page from the book and it specifically said for Druhkari Kabal Name repaces <Kabal>, Coven Name replaces <Coven>, and Cult Name replaces <Cult>. All this means is you cannot field two different Kabals, Cults, or Covens in the same army. No more Dark Techomancer Detachment for Cronos and a Detachment of AoF for Talos and Groteques.
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 22 2022, 01:38

Dalamar wrote:
Tactical Tortious had a vid with the page from the book and it specifically said for Druhkari Kabal Name repaces <Kabal>, Coven Name replaces <Coven>, and Cult Name replaces <Cult>.  All this means is you cannot field two different Kabals, Cults, or Covens in the same army.  No more Dark Techomancer Detachment for Cronos and a Detachment of AoF for Talos and Groteques.

No more double Trueborn neither.
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 22 2022, 02:25

mynamelegend wrote:
The way it's worded it sounds like all instances of <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, and <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> in our armies are replaced with a single type of each one.
So if you pick Black Heart for your Kabal, all instances of <KABAL> in the codex should be considered replaced by <BLACK HEART> - meaning you can't also have a detachment that replaced <KABAL> with <FLAYED SKULLS>, not that you're disallowed from taking units that don't have the <BLACK HEART>/<KABAL> keyword at all.

Soup should still be on the menu for us and everyone else, it's just that Space Marines never do joint operations between chapters (or rather, <CHAPTER>s) anymore.

I think that is indeed what they mean. And it might not be a bad thing for us. I'm pretty sure it hits Marines harder.
If this is not what they mean, and we are as suggested only allowed ONE subfaction, then I'm shelving everything and won't play until next edition. I'm boycotting that kind of crap. That would make us nearly unplayable, and definitely not enjoyable anymore. But I seriously doubt this is what it means.

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duckduckgoose
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 23 2022, 21:00

You can still run kabal, cult and coven you just can’t run multiple different kabals, cults, covens in one army
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 15:13

duckduckgoose wrote:
You can still run kabal, cult and coven you just can’t run multiple different kabals, cults, covens in one army


is it official or is it what you think?
i just want to make sure cause this will literally changes the way we build our lists!
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 16:34

The new rule says:

The biggest change to list building are selectable sub-faction keywords such as <Chapter>. Originally these were picked on a unit-by-unit basis, so squads and Detachments could come from different subfactions. This selection is now made when you start to build your list, and the sub-faction you choose now replaces every example of that keyword – meaning your whole army now has to come from the same grouping.

So for all kabal, cult and coven you replace that keyword with whatever obsession you choose, but they all share the Faction:<Drukhari> keyword. That’s how I’m interpreting it and that’s how I’ve seen others interpret it as well, so I believe that’s how it’s intended. It’s the same for armies like Dark Angels, for example. You can still run Ravenwing and Deathwing since they share the Dark Angels keyword
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Dabbarexe
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 17:06

Yup, you can run 1 kabal, 1 coven and 1 cult, but not 2 different kabals/covens/cults. So no double true born or Artists of Flesh/Dark Technomancer soup. But you're fine to run multiple patrols of Cult of Strife, for example.

Overall I think it's a sensible change and it doesn't hurt us anywhere near as much as Tyranids or Sisters.
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duckduckgoose
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 17:07

Yep agreed
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 17:10

excellent! from the start i wasn't a big fan of Obsession soups, so it's all fine with me!

any words on the new patrol detachment? i haven't heard anything about that if this is real or simply a rumor......
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 24 2022, 21:24

Kalmah wrote:
excellent! from the start i wasn't a big fan of Obsession soups, so it's all fine with me!

any words on the new patrol detachment? i haven't heard anything about that if this is real or simply a rumor......

It's not in Chapter Approved. Might be in the February balance dataslate that's coming, but we'll see I guess.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Farewell to Subfaction Soup   Farewell to Subfaction Soup I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 25 2022, 13:45

fingers crossed that this change won't occur!!!!
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