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Cerve
Patayou
sweetbacon
Burnage
Dalamar
AzraeI
Kalmah
fisheyes
krayd
ferrusmanus
colinsherlow
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Backslide
duckduckgoose
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duckduckgoose
Hellion
duckduckgoose


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PostSubject: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 16:30

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/WVNIlSN1XFw6Zfwo.pdf

A lot of points hikes including:

+20 on succubus
+2 on wyches and incubi
DL’s on raiders now cost 10
+5 on cronos

Some points decreases on venoms, flyers, grots, talos
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Dalamar
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 16:47

ooh missed the points change on Raider DarkLance. See all the rest in my post in News.
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Backslide
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 19:05

I just decided to embrace covens so this makes me happy lol

8 wyches in a dl raider with chainsnares was 180 and a staple of my lists is now 206

but 5 incubi in a venom effectively stayed the same points lol

but all those coven drops... 35 point grotesques lol! the 1500 point list I used on Sunday is 100 odd points cheaper
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Patayou
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 19:26

@Backslide wrote:


but 5 incubi in a venom effectively stayed the same points lol


pretty sure the cost of the venom is unchanged though, the cost just doesn't include the splinter cannon, so those 5 incubi+venom are still +10 pts total
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duckduckgoose
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 19:27

Yep, that’s accurate. I misread the points cost. I don’t know why they even list units that are unchanged in points. They should also do it in changelog format so you can see the diff
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Backslide
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 19:29

your right I'm an idiot lol meh I get my 15 incubi from the printer this week incubi instead of wyches it is.
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Wrack_Enthusiast
Slave
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 19:58

These changes please me greatly. It's going to suck if Coven armies end up being super meta, though.
Actually, no, it won't. People will sell their models for cheap after the inevitable nerf and my coven will grow larger without liquefying my bank account.
Full speed ahead with the buffs, I say.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 22:20

I can understand some of these changes but others just leave me scratching my head.

Archon +5pts. Why? And does Huskblade still costs an additional 5pts despite having lost all advantages over the alternative weapons?

Bloodbrides cost an extra point per model. Cool, so the upgraded troops that were already the hardest to justify have become even harder to justify. Yey?

Then you've got stuff like Venoms, Beasts etc. being left unchanged.

I don't know, it's good that some of the over-performers have been toned down, it's just a shame GW apparently considers the nerf-bat to be the only tool in the shed when it comes to DE.

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colinsherlow
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 22:56

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
I can understand some of these changes but others just leave me scratching my head.

Archon +5pts. Why? And does Huskblade still costs an additional 5pts despite having lost all advantages over the alternative weapons?

Bloodbrides cost an extra point per model. Cool, so the upgraded troops that were already the hardest to justify have become even harder to justify. Yey?

Then you've got stuff like Venoms, Beasts etc. being left unchanged.

I don't know, it's good that some of the over-performers have been toned down, it's just a shame GW apparently considers the nerf-bat to be the only tool in the shed when it comes to DE.

I mean a bunch of units go point decreases as well. Like the ravager, talos, flyers, haemonculus, grots etc. Which is pretty sweet. The archon ia the only one that really has be scratching my head.

Dark eldar got off pretty easy especially when you look at orks and ad mech

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duckduckgoose
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 09 2021, 22:58

Yeah the archon increase makes no sense. Maybe they just wanted to add additional trueborn tax. I might stop taking archons and trueborn altogether, and swap them out for 2x ravagers and a squad of mandrakes or a venom.

Archon + DL/2x blaster trueborn + DL raider is now 335, while 2 ravagers are only 260. Kind of spicy
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Cerve
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 00:20

Precisely when I've joined the Coven of the Twelves...I love it!

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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 05:27

I already liked ravagers so am stoked to have an excuse the take a 2nd ir dare I say 3rd ravager in some lists.

I think trueborn are a bit if a trap now. They definitely have some highsides, but I'm just not sure that they are wirth3it now. I like the Archon, but I might not need him as much now. I'll find another animus caddy

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ferrusmanus
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 09:49

nice faq, probably the wich are a bit down toned, for my list noting changes since i gain 40 point and loose 40 point lol

Even previous this nerf the new gw table (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/) block every line if played well, so the ravager are not too good, and the melee side of the game was pushed in every game.


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mynamelegend
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 11:58

Honestly this is all justified, and I'll be excited to see how "standard" lists adapt to this change.

As for how other factions got affected, I can unpucker a bit about orks and admech thanks to the crash mitigation to flier-spam lists. Though my guess is 3 Squigbuggies, 3 Dragstas, and 3 Snazzwagons isn't going to feel particularly much less excessive than 9 Squigbuggies did.
Imperial Guard getting 2+ Russes, 2x the Orders, and Tank Commander Orders to non-Russ vehicles. That'll be fun to see how it's put to use.
Chaos Marines get extra attacks against everyone instead of just the Imperium, which I'm perfectly fine with. Making a major faction a "hate deck" like that was always a bad idea from a mechanics viewpoint.
I don't know enough about Necrons to tell how half their codex gaining Core will affect them.

What's everyone's view on how the other armies' changes affect our matchups with them?
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Patayou
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 12:27

@colinsherlow wrote:

I think trueborn are a bit if a trap now.

at just +1 points they'll still be good, but ravagers are probably better at pure anti-tank now.

What trueborn can still bring is an all-around good jack-of-all-trades shooting unit, by kitting them with 1 dark lance and 2 shredders. If you play BH or OR, you still have 1 dark lance always hitting on 2 that can reroll one of its dice (either hit or wound), and you'll get some nice anti horde with the shredder (that is still S6 if you need to pop something a bit bigger). Obviously not needed in all lists but still very good for smaller games
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Gelmir
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 13:03

I'm mostly surprised they still didn't fix the weapon costs. Everything is 5 points, or a multiple of 5. However, that makes some weapons simply never worth considering. What's wrong with weapons costing 3 or 7 points? :/

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 13:41

I am also quite happy with this. My list went up about 7%, which is a fair trade to remove the AdMech/Ork Flyers from the game. I had to devote 1/3 of my list to counter them, so a 7% cost is more than worth it.


I cant stress enough how happy I am to see AdMech get kicked even harder than us. They were so hard to play into.

The Wych/Bloodbride point increase was pretty heavy handed, no question. And the Trueborn cost went from around 315 pts to 350 pts (rough math), which makes them less of an Auto Take.

Honestly surprised we got a point cut on Coven. That is our xmas gift from GW, we should not squander it Wink

Funny how Court of the Archon and Hellions didnt get hit. I assume they will be staple units going forward.

Combined with the previous point adjustment for Raiders, this puts us at about +10% from the Codex cost. That is fair IMHO. We still have lots of tools to deal with the META (whatever that will be), but most bandwagonners will be jumping to GK/TS soon. More EBAY deals for the rest of us Very Happy
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 14:08

@Gelmir wrote:
I'm mostly surprised they still didn't fix the weapon costs. Everything is 5 points, or a multiple of 5. However, that makes some weapons simply never worth considering. What's wrong with weapons costing 3 or 7 points? :/

It's been this way for every army since the beginning of 9th.

It's like GW spent most of 8th fine-tuning weapon costs and then threw all of it out of the window.

It's also irritating in that if you ended up with, say, 1997pts, you could take a PGL to round out your list. Now everything costs 5pts minimum so you simply don't have that option anymore.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 14:23

Unless you are taking the Court, in which case you are left with an odd point value
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 15:36

@fisheyes wrote:
Unless you are taking the Court, in which case you are left with an odd point value

Taking the court is usually the reason I've got an awkward point value in the first place. Razz

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 10 2021, 16:10

I haven't done the math yet, but I suspect that my experimental all-coven (with some blades for hire) 2000 pt list actually has some points freed up.

EDIT: Yup. Got back 55 pts.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 11 2021, 12:43

Ya, this was a well done point adjustment. Never in my wildest dreams did I think we would get a point CUT.

Been playing since 3ed edition, I cant recall a top faction ever getting a cut, even when it was clear there were internal balance issues.
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 11 2021, 14:06

Yeah, I’m pleasantly surprised with how lightly we got off.  A perfect illustration of this is found in Goonhammer’s Competitive Innovations article posted today which highlights how the Coven heavy lost that won the Mid-MO Maelstrom major last weekend actually went DOWN in points while still including all the hits that just got points increases such as Incubi, a Succubus, and Raiders.
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AzraeI
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 11 2021, 15:45

Time to fire up the printer I need more Grotesques

The Archon and Bloodbride change is really annoying. I just don' get it.
Especially since my Bloodbrides killed an astonishin 3 marines in the squad they charged last time I played.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ is up   FAQ is up I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 11 2021, 16:14

@azrael the answer is simple for the the point increase for Bloodbrides: Book of Rust!
but the Archon, except for a hidden taxe for our Trueborn, i don'T get it at all neither.
But real happy for everything Coven related!
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