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 2000pts Pure wych cult list

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Kaese
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Kaese


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Join date : 2021-10-26

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PostSubject: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 16:34

The list consists of two patrol detachments of cult of the cursed blade. I combined both patrols into one list so it will be easier to read. I spent 4CP for extra relics and traits for both succubi, so I should have 8CP to spent in game.

HQ
75pts - Master succubus: Warlord,blast pistol, dancers edge, quicksilver fighter, random drugs
60pts - Succubus: Glaive, triptych whip (-1CP), precision blows (-1CP), Adrenalight (+1A)
60pts - Succubus: Blast pistol, glaive, Traitors embrace (-1CP), Treacherous deceiver (-1CP), random drugs

Troops
120pts - 10x Bloodbrides: random drugs
125pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, random drugs
125pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, random drugs
70pts - 6x Wyches: Agoniser, Blast pistol, random drugs
70pts - 6x Wyches: Agoniser, Blast pistol, random drugs
70pts - 6x Wyches: Agoniser, Blast pistol, random drugs

Fast Attack
175pts - 10x Hellions, phantasm grenade launcher, random drugs
210pts - 9x Reavers, 3x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
210pts - 9x Reavers, 3x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
105pts - 5x Scourges, 3x dark lance

Transport
85pts - Raider, dark lance
85pts - Raider, dark lance
85pts - Raider, dark lance
90pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares
90pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares
90pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares

Total: 2000pts

I have played pure cult of strife in 8th edition, but the last game was about 2-3 years ago. In the new codex, I'm more tempted to play the cult of the cursed blade. +1 strength has always been solid, and the occasionally mortal wounds from saves is something that might be handy for pure wych cult. The automatic +1 strength bonus also gives more options for the drugs, so it is a good opportunity to test everything and run with more random drugs.

Two of the succubi are geared to be hard hitters with good potential to deal damage to anything with invulnerable saves. Third succubus will be a suicide bomber that could potentially deal plenty of mortal wounds. All characters will be in raiders with 10x wyches/bloodbrides, and will be the hard hitting core for the list.

3 units of 6x wyches will be riding with Venoms and these will be the jack of all trades. Will be used for harassing enemy, supporting main units in fights and go for the objectives or what ever is needed.

Reavers are only there for hunting big targets. I decided to go for blasters and splintermind so that I can always use the extra mobility, and still shoot effectively with the big guns. I really like to get the guns where I need them, especially with the lack of AT in the list. I was thinking of going 3x6, but units of 9 has few extra bodies to spare and more potential for drive by.

Hellions are the biggest question mark in the list. They didn't really get any work done in 8th, but now they look really solid with 2 wounds. I'm a bit tempted to go for +1T on the drugs, but will probably gamble for 2. Hellions have also been my favorite unit since 3rd edition, so every list just needs to have a unit of them Very Happy  

The list was supposed to be a pure wych cult at first, but I added a unit of scourges after couple of iteration for a bit more AT. Everything in the list will be aggressive, so I decided to go with dark lances to keep them alive longer.

I don't think there will be any issues if I manage to get into combat. The fire power is the big question, especially against big targets. On the paper 5x blast pistols, 6x blasters and 6x dark lances looks OK, but it might be difficult to get the blast pistols (and maybe scourges) close enough the targets. All the guns are spread so that almost every unit has some form of dealing with big targets, so the enemy can't get rid of everything without wiping me off the board.

What do you guys think? Is there any big flaws that I have missed?
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 16:59

2 things, that catched my eye: You better use Powerswords on your Wyches, than Agonizers.
And why would you equip your Venoms with Chainsnares?

OK, three things: wouldnt it make more sense to combine quicksilver fighter with the Triptych Whip
And precicion blows with the Dancers Edge?

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 18:18

Certainly an interesting list. Is this for a Competitive environment or a semi-competitive envirnment?

Hellions are an MVP in our codex. Going up to T4 and 2W really helped them, and having the Infantry keyword makes them amazing at abusing terrain/cover and performing actions to score you points.

I actually like Chain Snares on Venoms, it does catch some people off guard when your transport kicks out 6 attacks hitting on 3s and AP1. IDK if you really need more hoard clearance with a Cult list, but it does help sometimes.

I would agree that you are a little light on the Anti Tank, but that would be Meta dependent.

For a list to get back into the game, this should be really fun in a casual/semi competitive environment. Dont think it would do well into top table Competitive gaming, but little does these days Razz

Eventually you will want to start picking drugs for your units, but that takes some experience to know what jives with your playstyle. Also, Cult of Strife is the best cult by a lightyear, but Cursed Blade is pretty neat to start your learning process.

Good luck and have fun. Let us know what goes well/badly and we can help steer you in the right direction.
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 18:28

Hitting in 4+...

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Kaese
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Kaese


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 18:31

Thanks for the comments Zenotaph. You are probably right that my choices are not the optimal choices for drukhari in general. I have my reasons, and I think they suit cult list quite well when you don't have the luxury of strong picks from cabals and/or covens.

1. I agree with the power swords, as those would be S5 minimum on cursed blade detachments. The problem is that I have modeled agoniser on all my hekatrixes, and I'm not too keen on swapping arms on painted models. Will most likely start to use the swords when I have the time to build and paint some with swords.

2. I would like to ask for reasons not to use chain snares on venoms, especially on wych cult lists. In 8th edition my venoms use to be in combats all the time, mainly to eat the overwatch. I know it isn't that big of a thing in 9th, but I still think Venoms would be good support for wyches in combat. They have 3 S7 (+1S for obsession) attacks, and 5 points will make it 6 attacks. They are tough enough to withstand some beating from weaker units, and can now shoot the big guns in combat. It is more than likely that the venoms will occasionally follow the wyches into combat, so 5pts for the extra attack feels like a no-brainer for me.



3. The main idea behind this is that the wyches will deal with the hordes and succubi will go against elite targets. Cult list is not lacking on the ways to deal with bigger mobs in combat, but wyches will have issues with elite targets with either high toughness, armor or invulnerable saves.

Both weapons have 2 damage on the profile, so they both potentially deal the same amount of mortal wounds on single attack. The whip has 3 or 4 more attacks than dancers edge, so more chances to deal mortal wounds. Dancers edge basically turns 6s to mortal wounds as it will go through the saves, so more attacks will mean that the weapons ability activates more often.

Dancers edge in cult of the cursed blade can also benefit from +1S drug, so the +1A is not the only viable option. Two extra attacks at S7 and AP-4 means that I have a good option do deal with vehicles in combat. Add in the hyperstimm backlash, and you have 8x S8 AP-4 D2 attacks that hit on +2. The main reason for the dancers edge is the extra point in damage, and the extra ability is just a nice addition.

I think this combo gives me more options with the cult of cursed blade obsession. I will also have two capable characters, so losing one hurts less. And lets face it, pure cult list will definitely lose plenty of units before they have their chance to play Laughing
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 18:42

My thought about the Chainsnares was: Cultlist means mostly close combat, so why send the transports in, too?
And the Venom is much safer outside, thanks to -1 to hit for ranged attacks.

But!! I see your point. Wink

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Kaese
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Kaese


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 18:46

Big thanks to you as well fisheyes.

I'm not planning to play in competitive environment. I don't really have the time or experience, and I certainly wouldn't use a cult list as a starter. Very Happy I'm more of a beer & pretzel player and will occasionally play in friendly tournaments where having fun is the main thing.

The list is for a slow 5 month campaing/tournament where we play one game per month. List should stay the same through the whole event, but there is an option to modify the list after a loss. So there is an option to change composition.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 20:04

@kaese
Since you play 2x the same Cult, i would suggest to try the Custom Test of Skill (+1WR vs Vehicle/monsters) + Precise Killer (Blade Artist on 5+) to deal with vehicles and elite units since you only play Cult.
You will gain some much needed AP that way and more reliable WR against big models.

Also i agree with you the way you intend on playing your Whip and Dancer's edge (the way i see the Whip is as if Quicksilver Fighter was already integrated to it and Dancer's edge NEEDS more attack since it almost already deals pseudo MW with the negate invul and lot of AP)

BTW i really love your idea of a Cult only 2000pts list! I'd love to know some of your results Smile
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Kaese
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Kaese


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 21:22

@kalmah
Wyches have always been the most interesting unit in the game. Used to field couple of units of them back in the days we played 3rd edition. I had plans to start pure cult army in 7th edition when I thought of coming back to the hobby. I even bought some wyches, but the rules for them were so bad that there was no point. Then the 8th edition codex came out and I decided to build a cult to play when I got bored playing with blood angels, and suddenly I only played for cult of strife. I don't own a single kabal or coven unit, and don't have plans to change that Very Happy

I hadn't really thought about the custom cults. Precise killers is solid choice, but I'm not too sure about the test of skill. +1 to wound sounds cool, but it isn't really changing much when compared to +1S from cult of the cursed blade, especially against T7. Agonisers and hellions are probably the only ones that are better against T7 and other options are at the same level with +1S buff. It is better when +1S drugs are used, or the tank/monster has T8. Cursed blade +1S buff is just so good against marines etc. that I'm not sure if it is worth it to change.

Like @fisheyes pointed out, cult of strife seems like a better choice, even if I have problems with vehicles/monsters with my current list. It will not help me to do any more damage to big targets, but it gives me a lot more tools to avoid the targets I can't kill and go for the objectives.

If the plans won't change, I will have chance to play one or two friendly games with the list in a week or two. It will be a good opportunity to test the list and learn what has changed in 9th edition. Hopefully have some laughs when the enemy tries to figure out how to deal with my suicide bomber in combat.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 27 2021, 21:34

If you go Cult of strife, don't forget that you have to buy (or download or don't know what) the Charadon Book of Rust 1.
If you stick only with the Codex, Cult of Strife is good but not broke, this is the Book of rust that literally push Strife in the firmament!

best of luck for your games Smile
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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 28 2021, 13:54

Sorry for the confusion, I meant that Venoms hit on 3s starting on Turn 3 due to Power from Pain.

I just dont know if the Snares are really required, since you already have a LOT of hoard clearing with all the Wyches.

Test of Skill would help in your worst match up (mass vehicles, like the current Competitive Ork lists), but if you are playing Friendly/Semi Competitively that is much less likely to show up.

Hellions and Reavers are both really good units, same with the Wyches. Just requires a lot of planning and pre-measuring, and knowing when to go All In.

Your army will hit like a tonne of bricks, and you will want to start charging up the field on Turn 1 or 2. My best bit of advice is to restrain that impulse, and only send up a single unit on Turn 1/2 (if anything at all). Let the opponent score those early primary points, then you hit thim HARD on Turn 3 when you are hitting on 2s with everything.

Good luck and have fun! Let us know how it goes.
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Kaese
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Kaese


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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 13 2021, 20:35

Had to postpone the game couple of times because of flu, but finally got to play today. The point increase hit my list hard (180pts increase?) so I had to do last minute tweaking 30min before the game. Core is the same, but I had to drop one succubus and couple of wyches and bikes.

HQ
95pts - Master succubus: Warlord,blast pistol, dancers edge, quicksilver fighter, random drugs
80pts - Succubus: Glaive, triptych whip (-1CP), precision blows (-1CP), Adrenalight (+1A)

Troops
150pts - 10x Bloodbrides: random drugs
145pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, random drugs
145pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, random drugs
70pts - 5x Wyches: Agoniser, Blast pistol, random drugs
70pts - 5x Wyches: Agoniser, Blast pistol, random drugs
65pts - 5x Wyches: Agoniser, random drugs

Fast Attack
170pts - 10x Hellions, random drugs
210pts - 9x Reavers, 3x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
140pts - 6x Reavers, 2x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
105pts - 5x Scourges, 3x dark lance

Transport
105pts - Raider, dark lance
105pts - Raider, dark lance
105pts - Raider, dark lance
80pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares
80pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares
80pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon, chain snares

Total: 2000pts

I played against death guard with 3x7 plague marines, 2x10 poxwalkers, tallyman, demon prince, caster, 2x drones, 2x mortar tanks and 2 units of terminators. I got the first turn and basically went all out with my bikes as the enemy deployement was really weak on that flank. Rest of the army shifted the balance towards that flank as well while minimizing the lines of fire. All 6 dark lances were directed towards one of the tanks, but I rolled really bad and only took 3 wounds off. Bikes took one drone and 4 marines out on the flank. Everything was looking really good at this point and the enemy was clearly frustrated.

On enemy 1st turn the worst happened. 2 psykers pushed towards the middle with the plague marines and one of the tanks moved forward to get better line of sight. The first raider got 7x MV from the two smites and the marines managed to get off the remaining 2 wounds. The raider exploded causing 2 and 3 mortal wounds on the two raiders and 4 wyches died on the disembarkation. The tank that moved forward managed to down another raider and it exploded as well. The remaining tank fired a mortar at my last raider and managed to take it down as well, and of course it had to explode as well. At this point my warlord had died to the explosions, bloodbrides were down to 4, other succubuss had 3 wounds left and big wych units were down to 5 and 6 strong. Also the scourges were close enough to the blasts that they lost 4 and the last one ran away. All this to 2 smites, one plague marine unit shooting, one mortar shot and full load from one of the tanks.

The game was basically lost there, but I managed to keep ahead in points for the first 3 turns until I ran out of units. Hellions and reavers did really well and were the last units I had on the table. My wych blobb still managed to wipe the plague marine unit, 10 pox walkers and did some damage to the characters as well. They would have performed even better if not for the stratagem that made wounds from multi damage weapons to bleed out to other models like mortal wounds. Whip succubus had to duel with a drone (bad advance roll made it only semi-reliable target for charge) and almost took it out before the demon prince came to the rescue. Small wyches held the objectives on my side and screened the terminators to deep strike into corners, where they couldn't really do anything.

Despite the awful luck with the raiders, I had a fun time playing with this list. Random drugs were definitely bad idea as I didn't roll anything that would have been useful (every single unit got +1 to BS and ld, and not a single unit got +1S or +1A). Cursed blade +1S buff was wasted against death guard, but I managed to do plenty of mortal wounds from my saves which was even more useful than I had imagined. +1S combad drugs on wyches would probably have been the best choice in this matchup.

Reavers played about the same as they did in 8th with a small increase in combat performance. Hellions were really pleasant surprise with the increased toughness and proved to be a jack of all trade unit. They worked really well combined with the reavers.

Chain snares proved to be useless in this game as I had to keep my venoms on my side of the table for the primary objectives. Dropping the snares out would give me enough points to change one unit of wyches to incubi, that would help against ceramite. Hellions basically can do the same job better that I planned for the wyches in venoms.

Moving back to cult of strife feels a bit too tempting at the moment, but I think I will play at least one more game with the cursed blade to get a better feel of the rules. After that it will definitely switch back as those point increases had a huge impact on the list.

Edit: Noticed that my list was actually 30pts over. I had forgot the other splinter cannon from the calculations when I checked the new prices. Need to do some more tweaking.
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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 15 2021, 12:56

I still think that Cult lists are very strong, but they are the pinacle of "glass cannon" play. Games can be won or lost by litterally 1-2 inches. If you are too close you get obilerated. If your too far you dont make the critical charge. But once you get the hang of your positioning (basically when your brain tells you during a movement phase "if I move here, I will 100% die. I guess this should stay back for another turn?...")

If you want the recommendation of random Internet People, I would tell you to play the list a few times before changing anything in it. When I build a new list, it generally takes me about a month of playing (about 6-10 games) before it really "clicks" with me.

I think your list is still very strong. Keep at it Archon!
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Kaese
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 18 2021, 14:06

You are right on the positioning, it is difficult to stay in a space that is both safe and effective for next turn. It has been so long since I last played that there is a lot to keep track when only a small part comes naturally. Will definitely need a couple more games before everything in the movement phase come naturally.

While I totally agree on keeping the list same to get the feel of it, I'm forced to do the modifications on the list as it is 30pts over. The good part about the pure wych cult list that there are way less combinations than in a full drukhari list. Changing a small part on the list doesn't have that much impact on the synergies.

Basically I could just get rid of the chain snares on venoms, and agonisers/blast pistols on small wych squads. The problem is that I don't have any clear idea what to do with the small wych units in venoms to be effective other than denying deepstrike, going for objectives or killing chaff. 3 units seems a bit too much for the task. Scourges can also do some of it in my side of the board and hellions can do it better in opponent side.

Two other options I was thinking would be incubi against targets like terminators, where the AP on whyches just isn't enough. I just don't know where to get the points for that switch. The other option would be a razorwing for extra AT and possibly to take some shooting off from the raiders. I'm a bit tempted to try the razorwing as I have never used it before. I didn't actually even remember that I had one as it was still in a box after I moved to a new place year ago Smile

The razorwing list would look like this. (combined two cursed blade patrols)

HQ
95pts - Master succubus: Warlord, blast pistol, dancers edge, quicksilver fighter, Grave lotus (+1S)
80pts - Succubus: Glaive, triptych whip (-1CP), precision blows (-1CP), Adrenalight (+1A)

Troops
150pts - 10x Bloodbrides: Grave lotus (+1S)
145pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, Adrenalight (+1A)
145pts - 10x Wyches: Agoniser, all wych weapons, Adrenalight (+1A)
60pts - 5x Wyches: Hypex (+2M)
60pts - 5x Wyches: Hypex (+2M)

Fast Attack
175pts - 10x Hellions, phantasm grenade launcher, Painbringer (+1T)
210pts - 9x Reavers, 3x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
140pts - 6x Reavers, 2x Blasters, splintermind (+1BS)
105pts - 5x Scourges, 3x dark lance

Flyer
150pts - Razorwing jetfighter, 2x Dark lance

Transport
105pts - Raider, dark lance
105pts - Raider, dark lance
105pts - Raider, dark lance
85pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon
85pts - Venom, 2x splinter cannon

Total: 2000pts
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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts Pure wych cult list   2000pts Pure wych cult list I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 13:34

It would certainly work. Nothing wrong with this list at all.

It just takes a lot of smart positioning and thinking ahead. Terrain may also be an issue, where you cant hide all your boats/Reavers/Hellions on Turn 1.

Make sure you are pre-measuring when you deploy (how far you are from Points, or from the next piece of Obscuring Terrain, or from an enemy unit that can potentially punch you).

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!
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