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Kalmah
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Burnage
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PostSubject: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 13:31

I don't think any of us have failed to notice that Drukhari are currently doing extremely well competitively, and nerfs are almost certainly going to be incoming for us within the next few months. So, with that in mind, what elements of our book do we expect to be hit hardest, and is there anywhere where we might see compensatory buffs?

There are some problem units that seem very likely to be receiving points nerfs:

  1. Succubus
  2. Incubi
  3. Wyches
  4. Raiders


I'm fully expecting all of these to get hit by 5-10 point increases on a per-unit basis at minimum, and this isn't even thinking about units that could feasibly see nerfs like Draz, Wracks, Hellions and Reavers.

In addition to this, there are some elements of our list building that will probably be FAQed out, at least from Matched Play:

  1. The Blackstone Fortress Ur-Ghul will disappear
  2. No mixed detachments (outside of a RSR)


We do need toning down, and these seem like the kinds of changes that we're likely to get hit by. What else are we expecting, and are you changing lists up already to try and prepare for this?
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 13:38

I don't think there will be one.
Drukhari are doing decently, but not against Ad Mech. Ad mech crush us.
Whether or not Drukhari stay decent is also going to depend on how other new books fare, so if there is an errata to nerf us, it won't be for some time.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 13:56

No mixed detachements? Why? I mean, why? I really dont see the point.
And why would Wracks need a Nerf?

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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 14:09

@Squidmaster wrote:
I don't think there will be one.
Drukhari are doing decently, but not against Ad Mech. Ad mech crush us.
Whether or not Drukhari stay decent is also going to depend on how other new books fare, so if there is an errata to nerf us, it won't be for some time.

I think Ad Mech are a worse problem than us (especially with the new Flyer build), but we're also - unfortunately - one of the current bogeymen of 9th edition. There are some reasonably believable rumours flying around that there's going to be a December FAQ which hits both factions pretty heavily.

@Zenotaph wrote:
No mixed detachements? Why? I mean, why? I really dont see the point.
And why would Wracks need a Nerf?

I don't think it's necessarily a huge problem, but there have definitely been complaints about it in competitive circles - it's very easy to slip a Succubus into, e.g., a Covens detachment or use Wracks as a cheap Troop filler. That kind of list building also makes me think we could see Wracks going up by a point per model - they're relatively good throwaway objective holders.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 14:33

Then just FAQ it that way, that a coven detachement needs a coven HQ. Same goes for Kabal and Cult. Exceptions are Blades for hire.
Problem solved. Smile

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 15:24

for my part the ''mixed detachment'' makes no senses in the first place.......If i were to include a KAbal unit in a Coven detachment, i agree that we should lose our obsession (or just make it impossible to do) but that's my opinion as non-competitive player.

Succubus (+10), Hellions (+1@+3) and Raiders (+10) IMO should receive a little buff in their points (incubi i did not play with them enough to build an opinion).

But again, what is simply destroying the meta is always the goddamn Campaign book (Charadon and the soon to be released Octarius).
They should definitely just don't allow them in matched play games! thats it thats all!

Other than that i think our Codex is in a good spot.....and unlike the AdMech codex, we have a FUN one!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 15:28

Actually, there is one point: Disintegrators. They shoud swap the costs with the Darklance.

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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 16:20

I see the need for only 2 "fixes" and they are both just swaps in points. 1. Swap Disintegrator and Darklance Costs. 2. Swap the Costs of the Haemonculus and the Succubus.

bonus... Trueborn +3 points/model. Bloodbrides +2 points/model. Haemocytes?? +1 points/model.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 16:36

i don't think that they need to raise the point for the Trueborn/Haemoxyte/Bloodbrides as i think there is already enough taxes we need to pay to have them.
We already need a Master HQ and a Raider to have them be any good.
If they are to increase the point cost for the Raiders i think this would already solve this problem (if there is one)
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 18:03

@Kalmah wrote:
i don't think that they need to raise the point for the Trueborn/Haemoxyte/Bloodbrides as i think there is already enough taxes we need to pay to have them.
We already need a Master HQ and a Raider to have them be any good.
I am only raising the points on the Trueborn. Bloodbrides stay the same. Haemoxytes get a reduction.
I do see somewhat what you mean though, but I never consider the Raider a tax. You take a Raider because it is a Raider.  However I would change the Cost of the Master HQs to 10 archon, 20 Succubus, 15 Haemonculus.  So your tax HQs are both 75 pts, and your non tax HQ is 100. Your total cost for a trueborn unit is +5 points for 10, bloodbrides is +5 for 10, and Haemoxytes are -5 and keep the cost at 2 points per model.


@Kalmah wrote:
If they are to increase the point cost for the Raiders i think this would already solve this problem (if there is one)
You, do not want or need to touch the raiders cost anymore, you are effectively doing so by increasing the cost of the Darklance on the Raider and decreasing the cost of the disintegrator.  You also make the unused Ravager slightly more desirable if you get 9 shots at 140 vs. 9 shots at 155. While we are at it reduce the cost of the Splinter Cannon to 5 on the Venom to match the Razorwing.

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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 12 2021, 18:33

I think you got it.

All 4 of those units are a MUST TAKE in nearly every list.

I would swap out Wyches for Hellions, and maybe throw in the Court for a few extra points. But that may just be my Meta.

For my $0.02, I think Trueborn are OK as is. They are in nearly every list, but mostly because we need something to combat all that -1 damage/-1 to hit. Once you factor in the Master Archon, Trueborn and Raider, its like 310 points for 2 lances and 2 blasters. Hardly game breaking IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 13 2021, 20:49

@Burnage wrote:
@Squidmaster wrote:
I don't think there will be one.
Drukhari are doing decently, but not against Ad Mech. Ad mech crush us.
Whether or not Drukhari stay decent is also going to depend on how other new books fare, so if there is an errata to nerf us, it won't be for some time.

I think Ad Mech are a worse problem than us (especially with the new Flyer build), but we're also - unfortunately - one of the current bogeymen of 9th edition. There are some reasonably believable rumours flying around that there's going to be a December FAQ which hits both factions pretty hard.

Any chance you point me to these rumors? I hadn’t heard them before.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 14 2021, 16:07

Well, it looks like, Venom spam isnt so bad after all. As we can see here!

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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 14 2021, 19:49

@Zenotaph wrote:
Well, it looks like, Venom spam isnt so bad after all. As we can see here!
I’ve tried running nine Venoms several times and been disappointed every time.  I feel like Rule #1 of playing any Aeldari faction should be “Thou shall not copy a Sean Nayden list and expect it to perform like it does for him.” 😂
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 14 2021, 20:13

@Zenotaph wrote:
Then just FAQ it that way, that a coven detachement needs a coven HQ. Same goes for Kabal and Cult. Exceptions are Blades for hire.
Problem solved. Smile
There was a somewhat similar rule in 5e. To use wracks as troops, you needed to have a haemonculus in your army. A rule like that should be put in place again.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 14 2021, 20:23

@sweetbacon: OK, I see your point.  lol!
I am working on a beer&pretzel list for some time now and I think, it will have Venoms and Raiders.
Maybe 3 each in 1500pts and just use all three factions balanced, with some Blades for hire.

@Wrack_Enthusiast: I think, a Coven detachement should be led by a Haemi, not a Succubus.
Call me a purist, but thats how I think about it.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 14 2021, 21:23

@zenotaph if your a purist, than i am a Trueborn Wink
For me, a Coven model should only be hallowed in a Coven or RSR detachment.
The same goes for Cults and Kabal units.
plain and simple! My ketchup has its own bottle as well as my mustard! Only inside a hot dog do they combine (the hot dog being the battlefield and the bottles the detachments lol) Wink

I know, i'm THAT guy who loves to tone down my abilities when i deem something too strong (i've been doing this in D&D and my dungeon master was always laughing at me like: why???)
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 07:20

@Kalmah wrote:
@zenotaph if your a purist, than i am a Trueborn Wink
For me, a Coven model should only be hallowed in a Coven or RSR detachment.
The same goes for Cults and Kabal units.
plain and simple!

I know, i'm THAT guy who loves to tone down my abilities when i deem something too strong (i've been doing this in D&D and my dungeon master was always laughing at me like: why???)

But doing so, we are penalised compared to pretty much any other codex that doesn't have sub factions and can take whatever unit they want in the same detachment. It's not like it's free. We lose obsession for the non-kabal units we add. Why asking for further drawback?

And for the ketchup and mustard, you may be right. But you're forgetting the holy Mayochup.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 13:02

I am on the fence about the faction-mixing.

When I was a kid, we had purple ketchup. Not saying it was good or bad, just that it existed for a brief period of time.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 14:16

@dumpeal i would agree with you IF we were in a struggling zone.........right now we are (still) the boogeyman of 9th edition.....so we need to tone done a little bit anyway.
Just this small change could lead to a tone down without even adding a simple point to our list.
We would just lose the cherry picking syndrome.
Again, i'm just proposing something, i'm not saying this is THE solution Wink

@fisheyes yeah i remember what you are referring to.........but it disapeared and do someone even noticed here? nope.....maybe there is good reason to that Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 15:09

@Kalmah wrote:
@dumpeal i would agree with you IF we were in a struggling zone.........right now we are (still) the boogeyman of 9th edition.....so we need to tone done a little bit anyway.

I guess it depend on your local meta, but at my local gaming club dark eldar aren't feared anymore. Especially since orks.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 15:33

I would be okay with points increases to pretty much everything. Lists would have to be changed, but bringing dark eldar in line with the other factions wouldn't be too awful. Balancing a game for competition instead of fun is silly, but it is how it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 17:00

my meta is only beer and pretzel (lol i like this call) game so nothing really competitive and no player in my playgroup pilots the Orks, so i can't tell but i've heard really disturbing stories about them Wink
Maybe the nerf hammer is'nt too far from the orks?
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 20 2021, 20:14

@Kalmah wrote:
my meta is only beer and pretzel (lol i like this call) game so nothing really competitive and no player in my playgroup pilots the Orks, so i can't tell but i've heard really disturbing stories about them Wink
Maybe the nerf hammer is'nt too far from the orks?

I hope they get some nerf. But from what I'm seing from 9th, dark eldar don't need nerfing. It's just that all armies don't have the power up yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Preparing for the FAQ   Preparing for the FAQ I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 21 2021, 08:33

@dumpeal wrote:

I hope they get some nerf. But from what I'm seing from 9th, dark eldar don't need nerfing. It's just that all armies don't have the power up yet.


Well, to be honest,and I wouldnt call it nerf, but a slight point adjustment could be helpful in the meta.
Our Succubi are undercosted, regarding their sheer killing potential. Maybe they could just exchange points with haemis.
Would be fair, I think.
Then, there is the issue with the Dark Lance and the Dissi. Small issue, but noteable.
And maybe, just maybe, a slight, well, a very slight point increase for Incubi, Wyches and Trueborn is in order, too.
On the other hand, Venoms are a bit too costly, as are Grots.

But all in all, I think, we are good. Uh, or bad. Depends... lol!

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