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 Dark techromancer cronos

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sekac
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duckduckgoose
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PostSubject: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19 2021, 22:59

Wondering if anyone has run DT cronos recently and if so, how do they do? A unit of 3 with a single spirit probe for re-roll 1s to wound is 215 points. That's 21 wounds at T6/7 with Haemi nearby, 3+/6++/5+ FNP. Spirit syphon is going to give 3d6, S6 AP-2 attacks that always hit, and wound most things on a 2+. I'm not sure how the D2 on 6's to wound works with DT, as the language is ambiguous. I guess you don't get that benefit as DT already bumps every attack to D2.

The unit isn't going to put out a ton of hurt, but if you can get it into combat, especially with another fighty unit nearby to benefit from the Reservoir of Pain, it could be a pretty hard to move block. Thoughts?
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19 2021, 23:19

DT Cronos, Cronoi, Cronoses, well, whatever... They already hit the tournaments.
Take a look at that! 1st place Flying Monkey is a Drukhari list with 4 of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19 2021, 23:23

Woah. He's actually using 6 Cronos all armed with spirit vortex. No Haemonculous though, which is interesting. OK well good to know that these babies are competitive. I just received 3 talos/cronos and am considering whether to run them as talos or cronos. Why do you think the raiders are being run as coven? +1 to wound +1 to damage on dark lances seems is only going to be useful against models with T7 and 5+ wounds
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19 2021, 23:50

I'm confused a little by this:
Quote :
Matt’s brand of Drukhari is very similar to my own post-FAQ list… which frankly makes sense because he and I had discussed the utility of the Cronos to cover for the significant lack of quality shooting from the post-FAQ army.
from https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-big-summer-blowout-pt-2/.

1) do we lack significant quality shooting? We can load up on lots of dark lances, blasters, heat lances, etc.

2) do cronos make up for that? With sprit vortexes and spirt syphon with DT, you are looking at up to 12 S6, AP-2 d2 shots, but at 12" range for the syphon and the potential to kill a talos with 3 1's to hit, there's a significant trade off. Am I missing something? I suppose you don't have to use DT on the spirt vortex, which mitigates the potential for causing lots of d3 mortal wounds, with the tradeoff of the vortex being strength 5 and only D2 on 6's to wound
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 00:07

duckduckgoose wrote:
Why do you think the raiders are being run as coven? +1 to wound +1 to damage on dark lances seems is only going to be useful against models with T7 and 5+ wounds
DT adds +1 to the woundroll. That makes a Dark Lance auto wounding T4 or lower, wounding T5-7 on 2s and T8 on 3s.
And the damage goes up to D3+4. That is pretty nasty. Of course doing so, prevents you from rerolling hits.

Edit: I think the lack of quality shooting is adressed to Coven units.

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Last edited by Zenotaph on Fri Aug 20 2021, 00:17; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 00:11

Ah I didn't realize that DT can take you down to wounding on 1s, guess that makes sense though. With that in mind, making the raiders DT makes more sense, though I guess it would depend on what you're facing.

What are your thoughts on exactly how to use cronos?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 00:30

I never used a Chronos, but I would let them be closely followed by a Master Regenerist, so they get +1T and heal 3W every movement phase.
Could be a tough nut to crack. And it definetly keeps a lot of firepower away from your other units.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 00:48

Zenotaph wrote:
duckduckgoose wrote:
Why do you think the raiders are being run as coven? +1 to wound +1 to damage on dark lances seems is only going to be useful against models with T7 and 5+ wounds
DT adds +1 to the woundroll. That makes a Dark Lance auto wounding T4 or lower, wounding T5-7 on 2s and T8 on 3s.
And the damage goes up to D3+4. That is pretty nasty. Of course doing so, prevents you from rerolling hits.

Aside from rules that specifically allow you to automatically wound, you never auto-wound. Unmodified 1s always fail.



duckduckgoose wrote:
I'm confused a little by this:
Quote :Matt’s brand of Drukhari is very similar to my own post-FAQ list… which frankly makes sense because he and I had discussed the utility of the Cronos to cover for the significant lack of quality shooting from the post-FAQ army.
from https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-big-summer-blowout-pt-2/.

1) do we lack significant quality shooting? We can load up on lots of dark lances, blasters, heat lances, etc.

2) do cronos make up for that? With sprit vortexes and spirt syphon with DT, you are looking at up to 12 S6, AP-2 d2 shots, but at 12" range for the syphon and the potential to kill a talos with 3 1's to hit, there's a significant trade off. Am I missing something? I suppose you don't have to use DT on the spirt vortex, which mitigates the potential for causing lots of d3 mortal wounds, with the tradeoff of the vortex being strength 5 and only D2 on 6's to wound

1) I think they meant "lack of quality volume shooting", which we definitely do. The context for the statement was in regards to losing the Dark Technomancer liquifier wrack spam. The 3 weapons you listed are all quality anti-tank (or equivalent) shooting, but are horribly inefficient shooting at something like a space marine with a storm shield, for instance.



We have poison, but poison is pretty ineffective against anything with armor. And we have shredders which are pretty good generally, but aren't going to carry you through a shooting phase.


Chronos absolutely add quality firepower we otherwise have limited access to. With S5, +1 to wound, AP-2 and D2 they are great against a lot of targets. They wound the toughest things in the game on 4s. And they wound space marines on 2s and the D2 kills one with each failed save.


Go Chronos, Talos aren't very good right now. They're like chronos but not good as shooting. They're okay in combat, but nowhere close to as good as a (much cheaper) unit of Incubi. They also can't bring themselves back from the dead nor contribute any auras to the army. And they're more expensive than Chronos. I own 4 Talos and only 2 Chronos. I wish those numbers were reversed.


Regarding DT Raiders, I'm a big fan too. Wounding T7 on 2s and doing a minimum of 5 damage, they swat vehicles and monsters down like crazy. They're also scary for characters if the opportunity arises. Personally, I prefer disintegrator cannons on them for a little more quality volume fire. But I take Forgeworld Reapers (not actually FW models, converted raiders) for my anti-tank. But I make them DT as well so the same principle applies. Their spike damage is nuts and their average is quite high.


Hope some or any of this helps!
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 00:59

Ups, right. I forgot the rule of rolling a 1. My bad, I apologize. Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 06:53

Thanks for the clarification on the 1s to wound sekac. I think I will build 3 cronos and try them out as DT and also AotF, backed up by a master regenecist haemi. I think that could be a pretty tough unit, putting out 6d6 s5 ap-2 shots, or better with DT. Even if they don’t kill that much I think they will draw attention from other units
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 07:22

duckduckgoose wrote:
Thanks for the clarification on the 1s to wound sekac. I think I will build 3 cronos and try them out as DT and also AotF, backed up by a master regenecist haemi. I think that could be a pretty tough unit, putting out 6d6 s5 ap-2 shots, or better with DT. Even if they don’t kill that much I think they will draw attention from other units

Yeah I'd very much like to play with 3 but I've been very satisfied with the 2 I've been running. I have them backed up with the haemi as well because I run a Realspace Raid. The Archon gives them re-roll 1s to hit when they don't power up their vortex, as well as re-roll 1s to hit in melee and they give themselves re-roll 1s to wound. 


And if ever they kill anything in either shooting or melee, they can play the Pain Siphon strat on themselves to count as turn 5 on PfP. Hitting on 3+ in melee and getting a 5++ on turn 1 or 2 is great.


I'm sure they're very solid with AotF, but I haven't played with it yet, so I can't say from experience. If running with DT, just make sure to be careful about when to enhance the spirit vortex and when not to. I've accidentally just done too many mortal wounds to my own, only to undermine their ability to absorb fire.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 17:09

I think I'll run a block of 3 in my next 1500 point game as DT and see how they do! I agree being careful about when to enhance spirit vortex is key. It seems like it would be fairly easy to kill a cronos with just a little bad rolling
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 17:15

3 what? Chronos or Raider? lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 17:19

Sorry, 3 cronos! I also have 3 raiders but usually run them as obsidian rose, though I may try DT raiders at some point
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 17:54

Hmm, the longer I think about it, the more I want to try DT Hexrifle and Ossefactor.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20 2021, 17:56

Yeah, I am also going to run 2x5 wracks with hextrifle and ossefactor as backfield campers. They might get lucky 1 or 2 times during the game and take out a support character or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24 2021, 23:26

I'm a big fan of Darktechno raiders and wrack shooting. Played with 6 squads of Hexrifles and Ossifactors, was great for chipping away at characters and vehicles. Planning on taking a full 9 squads with 6 cronos next time.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 06 2021, 20:19

I run 6 DT Cronos as well and yes, they don't need any Haemonculus.
In fact, one of the strongest way to play them is on flank. With 3CPs you can put all 6 of them on flank, giving to you a lot of room for hiding Raiders, and good pressure on your opponent.
Of course it's not mandatory, but it's powerful most of the times
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 08 2021, 19:42

Here! is another competitive DT Chronos list. Looks like it really rocked. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 09 2021, 20:45

Do you think Dark Lances are better than Disintegrators on DT Raiders?

I know Dark Lances are usually better but when you've got +1 to wound (and damage) I'd have thought 3 S5 AP-3 D3 shots would be preferable to 1 S8 AP-4 Dd3+3 shot.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 09 2021, 20:59

But every 1 to hit gives D3 mortals. Crippling your own Transports could go pretty fast.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 09 2021, 22:35

Zenotaph wrote:
But every 1 to hit gives D3 mortals. Crippling your own Transports could go pretty fast.

Even so, you're still capped at d3 Mortal wounds per weapon.

Though I'll grant you're more likely to suffer those d3 wounds when you're firing 3 times as many shots. Razz



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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 10 2021, 04:52

Zenotaph wrote:
But every 1 to hit gives D3 mortals. Crippling your own Transports could go pretty fast.

No, actually. Each weapon that rolls one or more a 1s suffers D3 mortal wounds. So your raider can never take more than D3 in a turn. 


Dark Technomancer dissies are great for the same reason DT Reapers are: multiple shots from 1 gun minimizes the downside.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark techromancer cronos   Dark techromancer cronos I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 10 2021, 11:57

Wright. I got it, I got it. :pol!:

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