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 Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game

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Callimaco
Slave
Callimaco

Posts : 4
Join date : 2021-08-17

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PostSubject: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 00:32

Hello:
I have not played 40k in several editions, and I've never taken the dark kin out the display cabinet to the table top. This Saturday, I will be playing a 750 pt game with a new group  that includes some new players and wants to grow armies. At first I was going to put together a list that was just a good base to get them painted, but it turns out that the group has been looking for competitive lists online. What kind of Archon would I be if I gave my adversaries an advantage?

I am sticking to a Kabal list first, and I am sticking to what I have already built (so a venom instead of a third raider). Im deciding between Black Heart and Obsidian Rose, and a few warlord traits. Any help would be appreciated:

Kabalite Patrol 750 pts
Archon
           Djinn Blade, Blaster Pistol

5  Incubi

5  Kabalite Warriors
                            Blaster

5  Kabalite Warriors
                            Blaster

5  Scourges
                4 Shredder

Ravager
           3 Dark Lance

Raider
        Dark Lance

Raider
        Dark Lance

Venom
         2 Splinter Cannon
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 894
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 00:52

First of all: Welcome!!
Second: I recommend downloading 'Battle Scribe'. Its a very good App for list building.
It doesnt only help you, keeping track of your points, but also shows you the stats, gear and abbilities of your units.
You can even export your lists to forums and chat apps.

From a beer&pretzel players point of view, your Kabal only list looks ok.
But without the Master Archon upgrade, you deny yourself the best Kabal unit in our Book. Trueborns...
And the upgraded Archon himself isnt too bad either. Maybe you could just ditch the Venom.

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Callimaco
Slave
Callimaco

Posts : 4
Join date : 2021-08-17

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 03:15

Thanks for the input. The list isn't going to stay Kabal only, just seemed easier at a smaller point game with idea to add the other as we grow.

Dropping a venom would allow me to get the Archon upgrade, and ten Trueborn with either two blasters or one dark lance. Would that be worth the exchange? Would dropping the shredders off the Scourge to fill out the Trueborn be the way to go then?
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 894
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 11:54

Actually, your Trueborn would have both. 2 Blasters and the Dark Lance.

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [6CP, 42 PL, 735pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

Obsession: Kabal of the Obsidian Rose: Flawless Workmanship

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ HQ +

Archon [90pts, 5 PL]: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Overlord, The Djin Blade, Warlord
. Splintered Genius (Obsidian Rose): Splintered Genius

+ Troops +

Kabalite Trueborn [135pts, 8 PL]
. 6x Kabalite Trueborn: 6x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Trueborn Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites +

Incubi [80pts, 4 PL]
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [80pts, 5 PL]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 140pts]: 3x Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 105pts]: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [6 PL, 105pts]: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

++ Total: [42 PL, 6CP, 735pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Something like that?

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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1881
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 12:16

@Zenotaph wrote:
Actually, your Trueborn would have both. 2 Blasters and the Dark Lance.

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [6CP, 42 PL, 735pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

Obsession: Kabal of the Obsidian Rose: Flawless Workmanship

Raiding Forces - CP Refund

+ HQ +

Archon [90pts, 5 PL]: Blast Pistol, Hatred Eternal, Huskblade, Overlord, The Djin Blade, Warlord
. Splintered Genius (Obsidian Rose): Splintered Genius

+ Troops +

Kabalite Trueborn [135pts, 8 PL]
. 6x Kabalite Trueborn: 6x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Heavy Weapon: Dark Lance
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Trueborn w/ Special Weapon: Blaster
. Trueborn Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites +

Incubi [80pts, 4 PL]
. 4x Incubi: 4x Klaive
. Klaivex: Demiklaives

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [80pts, 5 PL]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Shredder
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [8 PL, 140pts]: 3x Dark Lance

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [6 PL, 105pts]: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [6 PL, 105pts]: Dark Lance, Grisly Trophies, Kabal, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

++ Total: [42 PL, 6CP, 735pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Something like that?

If you want a Competitive list, this is it.

Seriously, this is just MEAN at 750. All those Raiders/Ravagers are super durable, and most armies will not be able to deal with them at 750 pts. The Master Archon and Incubi will sit inside their boats until turn 3, then jump out and start punching whatever is left over.

But 9th edition is a very different game than 8th edition (or earlier). Positioning and knowing what units "trade" well is how Dark Eldar win games.

The main chalange for you will be learning that positioning. I highly recomend taking a look thru the forum to see us discuss how to position those Raiders, and our optimal threat ranges.

Best of luck, and let us know how it goes!
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 894
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 13:45

Another pretty mean idea just popped into my head. Take my list, but use the Ravager with Dissies.
The Trueborn provide enough anti-tank for 750pts. And the Ravager then has 9 S5 AP-3 D2 shots.
That should whipe out any elite infantry your opponent might bring. At 42"...

Edit: Klick here! Its a nice article about playing ESE! Wink

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

Posts : 545
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 14:18

Welcome aboard fellow Archon Smile

Nice list you got there!
Shredder Scourge are all star players, especially in low point list, you will love them! (there is the stratagem ''never stationary'' that do wonders with them).

I have a personal preference for Obsidian Rose, especially if you intend on using Ravagers.

Playing with the wonderful Incubi models without Drazhar, i would highly suggest you to try your best to have your Archon near them (his aura apply to Incubis). From my small experience, keeping the Archon inside a Raider with his trueborn is a complete waste of point/warlord trait/relic if you wait for the Raider to be destroyed.

I see you have 2 Raiders in your list, but only one full unit that can go inside it.
I would suggest you to drop one Raider and replace it with one Venom (lol i know the venom you just removed Wink ) and put your Incubis + Archon inside it.
Going that route i would keep the Ravager with 3x Dark Lance (by removing a Raider you lose a DL)

Overall you have a real good start! And do you know what army you will face most? are you playing only with friends or at local stores? (or even competitive scene)
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 894
Join date : 2014-04-22
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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 14:44

The Raider is sturdier and has a Dark Lance. I would stay with 2 Raiders.

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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1881
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 16:12

Hmm, IDK about that @Kalmah. The venom doesnt have as many wounds, which is what makes the Raider so difficult to deal with.

Similarly, its not the worst idea to put the Archon with the Trueborn. If the Archon boat goes down, I would rather lose a few splinter rifle Trueborn than an Incubi. Im not saying you NEED to put him in there, just want to point out that it is a valid idea.

Idk about the Lance vs Disintegration Cannon at 750 pts. You may be right, I honestly dont have the experience at this point level to have a firm conviction either way.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 894
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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 16:40

Sure, it depends on the enemy. Its just nice for powerarmored units. Or other elite MSUs.
Not much Infantry can deal with Dissies, without burning CP. And at 750pts those are valueable.
And with the Trueborn and 2 Raiders, there is serious anti tank on the table. 2 Blasters and 1 DL always hitting on 2+,
2 DL hitting on 3+. And all with improved range. How much Dark Light weapons do you need at that pointlevel?
And the list has those 15pts to spare.

Edit: Maybe only 1 or 2 dissies? On the Raiders?

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 17:03

lol thats one of my problem, i always want to FULLY use my stuff, and seeing an half-empty Raider is just something that bothers me lol (which not always lead to the most efficient result i have to admit Wink )

But i agree that overall, the Raider is a better unit than the Venom.

About the Archon, seriously since i've changed the way i play my Archon, i FAR prefer them on the ground than inside a transport where they are plain and simple useless unless your game start to turn sour (and when that's the case, rarely we can come back with a simple Archon with a bunch of Kabalites). They NEED to start the game in a transport so that they can get where they are needed, but as of late i try to drop them earlier on the ground where they will be needed, where their aura will do something, and i always bring Incubis whenever i play Kabal, so they always need to be close.
Usually if my Archon started in a Raider with 10 Kabalites, i will drop the Archon near a unit of Incubis but will leave the KAbalites inside the transport to continue their job as a gun platform (especially useful in an Obsidian Rose detachment)

I agree though that 5 incubis and 1 Archon inside a Venom is not the best. As of late i play Kabals almost entirely in Realspace Raid lists, so usually my Archon will be inside a Raider with 5 incubis and 5 Wych (and in 2000pts list, another raider with the same configuration but Drazhar instead of Archon).

now back to the topic of @callimaco, i agree after all those saying that you should keep the Raider instead of Venom Wink
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 17:17

Maybe, just maybe, we overdid it a little. Its his first match 9th and the first time ESE.
And we build a full competitive list with all the works. It might not be a bad idea to keep it beer&pretzel. A little bit. Wink

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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 17:50

DESTROY YOUR OPPONENT AND DO SOME PRETZEL À-LA ZOHAN WITH THEM!!!!! mouhahahahahaha Twisted Evil !
lol but i agree, if he's playing only casual with some friends.......especially knowing that his first try at a list is already good enough to win some games, he should just enjoy whatever he wants to play.
And there is no better way to learn than to actually play!
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Callimaco
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Callimaco

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 19:32

Thanks! This is some great stuff to consider. It I've been visiting The Dark City for years and knew this was the place to go. I was stuck on making sure to have two obsec units, but I guess that doesn't matter if you shoot your opponent off objectives. One less venom is one less thing to paint. I d know that two of the group are doing primary and thousand sons with possible dreadnoughts so the ravager loadout is going to be tough. I thin admec and either neurons or works are the other armies from what I've heard. Thank everyone again
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 19:58

How much opponents are we talking? You say Dreadnoughts. If its just one, then your Trueborn with two Raiders are good.

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Callimaco
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Callimaco

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 20:15

There are four or five others in the group I believe. Enough to run three simultaneous games. I don't have a full rundown on lists or even factions , so I'm going into this blind. I do know there are some with recent 40k experience, so I want to go in somewhat ready
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18 2021, 20:43

Then I think, the meanest list is the one quoted by Fisheyes. Btw, I made that one within 5 minutes with Battlescribe. Wink

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fisheyes
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fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19 2021, 12:34

@Callimaco , theory is an important part of 40k, but experience is even more important.

We can give you all the advice, and give you the best list that money can buy, but it will still evaporate if you dont play it well Razz

I would try out the list for a few games (I would recomend against changing it too much, its important to learn your models rules, like movement/toughness/saves/weapons/etc).

The most important thing will be positioning. Learning both your threat ranges and your opponents. Playing around Line Of Sight blocking terrain/ firing lanes. Making the best use of Dense/Light/Defensible cover.

Even basics like Movement, Pile in/Consolidate are SO important, and generally get glossed over when discussing lists.

Good luck and have some fun with your buddies! Let us know how it goes so we can give some targeted advice.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game   Help with 750pt list for first ever 9th ed or Drukhari game I_icon_minitime

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