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 About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors

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Jebei
Soulless Samurai
Zenotaph
rtynd057
The Strange Dark One
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


Posts : 1848
Join date : 2018-04-02

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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 25 2021, 16:29

Jebei wrote:
Has anyone tried running 10 truborn Poison tongue with blasters and DL defending an objective rather than placing them in transport?It could be decent bait for a trap maybe?

Why Poison Tongue?

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Jebei
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Jebei


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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 25 2021, 17:36

Just for the 2+ Splinter fire,but OS could be just as good for the extended ranges?
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 25 2021, 22:31

Jebei wrote:
Just for the 2+ Splinter fire,but OS could be just as good for the extended ranges?

The trouble with PT is that Poison without AP doesn't really do a whole lot. If that unit fires at a Marine squad in rapid-fire range, all those poison shots are only downing a single Marine.

OR at least buffs the primary focus of Trueborn (the special/heavy weapons). However, if you put them in a Raider with Splinter Racks, they could have a 30" rapid-fire range.

The other aspect is that Trueborn only get offensive buffs over Warriors. When it comes to defence, they get no extra protection. So they've got big targets painted on them but without a transport all they've got is T3 with 4+ saves.

That said, I'm honestly wondering whether Trueborn are worth it at all. Not counting the Archon tax, you're looking at a minimum of 250pts (including the Raider), which buys you 2 Dark Lance shots (one at BS2+), 2 Blaster shots (BS2+) and 7/14 splinter shots (meh). Yet for just 10pts more, you could have 2 Ravagers, which net you 6 Dark Lance shots.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 00:23

Yeah I've been off Trueborn for a while now, and after FAQ, I like them even less. Their main value is as a To The Last unit. Beyond that, they aren't efficient at anything. 
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Patayou
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 12:22

These times I mosly play small games (500 or 1000 pts), my BH trueborn with 1DL and 2 shredders in a raider make for a good all-purpose ranged unit. I really like shredders, I feel they might be under-appreciated.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 13:53

Trueborn are even better with To The Last. They now pair really well with Ravagers, now that they went down to 130 (and are no longer a TTL target).

Im running Trueborn and 2 Ravagers in my Tourney list right now to counter the Thicc City and Knight builds running around right now.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 16:58

The thing to consider when comparing Trueborn and Ravagers is that once the Ravager is destroyed.........well it is over entirely.
While if your Raider is destroyed, you still have 8-10 models that can still do some serious damage, hold objectives etc...

I get the point, but i think we should not overlook our Trueborn only based upon the "Ravagers have more shots".

Bloodbrides now however i agree are close to being unplayable now!

@Patayou this week end i will play a bunch of 500pts games! and i intend on trying something a little bit like you are referring: 1x DL and 2x shredders on my Trueborns!
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 17:07

Kalmah wrote:
The thing to consider when comparing Trueborn and Ravagers is that once the Ravager is destroyed.........well it is over entirely.
While if your Raider is destroyed, you still have 8-10 models that can still do some serious damage, hold objectives etc...

I agree with the principle of what you're saying but do bear in mind that Trueborn + Raider is the equivalent of two Ravagers.

So whilst the destruction of a Raider still leaves your Trueborn (mostly) intact, the destruction of one Ravager also leaves your second Ravager intact.

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 26 2021, 17:22

i agree on that too Wink
but i just want to point out that there is more to take into account than the number of shots.
Also, to mitigate the point cost, usually you will need anyway a unit of Kabalite and usually an Archon, so the point comparison is not THAT simple.
But again, i get your point Wink
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 27 2021, 00:49

Kalmah wrote:
i agree on that too Wink
but i just want to point out that there is more to take into account than the number of shots.

Oh absolutely. I'm usually someone who leans more towards Kabalites/Trueborn in transports over Ravagers, even if the latter are technically more points efficient, just because they tend to have more redundancy built in.

The issue with Trueborn is that I seem to be paying an awful lot of points and not actually getting a whole lot for it. BS2+ is nice, but 70% of that is wasted on regular splinter fire, and another 20% is stuck with Blasters (which, especially in the hands of Trueborn, are just vastly worse Dark Lances) or Shredders (which are fine but hardly spectacular, let alone for a 150pt unit). So at the end of the day you only actually get 1 weapon you'd actually really want BS2+ for.


Kalmah wrote:

Also, to mitigate the point cost, usually you will need anyway a unit of Kabalite and usually an Archon, so the point comparison is not THAT simple.

True, though when I factor in the cost of the Archon and troops (whether Kabalites or Trueborn), I tend to lean more towards wondering whether my army really needs a Kabal detachment in the first place. Razz

But if you're set on one, you're right, the Trueborn at least fulfil a mandatory role.

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 27 2021, 04:48

lol i agree that for now Kabal seems to be the lowest of the 3 subfactions available Wink
Cult, even with the point increase, is still insane (partly because of Hellions)
Coven now seems to be a real deal with the point decrease.
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PostSubject: Re: About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors   About using, missusing and abusing Kabalite Warriors - Page 2 I_icon_minitime

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