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 Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?

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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 03 2021, 20:05

Now that we live in a post-Liquifier world, I’ve started to experiment a little more and am really loving Arist of the Flesh on 20 man Wrack units.  I’ve been running 40-60 with a Heaemie with Master Regenicist (?) and they are all stars at playing the mission, scoring points, and being surprisingly hard to shift (I’m excluding Ad Mech here because they kill anything in the game with a 160 point unit of basic troops so…yeah).  

In my most recent game, a 20 man unit in cover took 48 Custodes bolter shots and lost six models.  Another 20 man unit tarpitted a Telemon for three turns until my Wyches finished it off.  

I’ve also dusted off my Talos and their new Ichor Injector, HL, and Scalpels make them a great all around threat with AoF.  And they are a counter to the current DE counter, Volkite Contemptors,  since Str 6 2dmg AP- shots generally bounce off and the 5+++ helps shrug off the mortal wounds.  

Also been trying 20 CoS Wyches in deep strike to take advantage of the +1 to charge bonus.  If’s a great psychological tool as it forces opponent’s to spread out and keep more units back to protect their backfield which lets me put more of my assets into fewer of theirs in the midfield.  

So, what new combos/Obsessions/units has everyone been trying out that turned out to a pleasant surprise?
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Yziel
Kabalite Warrior
Yziel

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Join date : 2019-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 13:55

I think Court of the Archon took a lot of people by surprise, from my initial read I certainly didn't expect them them to be as strong as they are.

For Obsessions I didn't think Court of Twelve looked very good but after seeing them in action it really changes what they can go into. With their poison they can suddenly do well against marines since Twelve gives them respectable AP which is really interesting, there's very few poison weapons with good AP in the book.
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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 15:14

Yeah, I think Coven of 12 Grotesques and Talos could become more interesting as Ad Mech start to take over the meta since AP 3 2dmg is the sweet spot to ignore all of the stacking defensive buffs that Skiitari infantry blobs can get. Assuming you can keep them alive long enough to punch back. Maybe Haywire Scourges as well since they’re blast weapons.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 15:33

@Yziel wrote:
I think Court of the Archon took a lot of people by surprise, from my initial read I certainly didn't expect them them to be as strong as they are.

Have you enjoyed success with all the members of the Archon's court?

If so, I'd be interested in hearing how you used Lhamaeans.

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sweetbacon
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sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 16:01

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Yziel wrote:
I think Court of the Archon took a lot of people by surprise, from my initial read I certainly didn't expect them them to be as strong as they are.

Have you enjoyed success with all the members of the Archon's court?

If so, I'd be interested in hearing how you used Lhamaeans.

I’ve only ever seen people using the Nick Nanavatti Sslyths and Urghuls party.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 16:14

@sweetbacon wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Yziel wrote:
I think Court of the Archon took a lot of people by surprise, from my initial read I certainly didn't expect them them to be as strong as they are.

Have you enjoyed success with all the members of the Archon's court?

If so, I'd be interested in hearing how you used Lhamaeans.

I’ve only ever seen people using the Nick Nanavatti Sslyths and Urghuls party.  

Is that 4 Sslyths and 4 Ur-Ghuls?

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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 16:57

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@sweetbacon wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Yziel wrote:
I think Court of the Archon took a lot of people by surprise, from my initial read I certainly didn't expect them them to be as strong as they are.

Have you enjoyed success with all the members of the Archon's court?

If so, I'd be interested in hearing how you used Lhamaeans.

I’ve only ever seen people using the Nick Nanavatti Sslyths and Urghuls party.  

Is that 4 Sslyths and 4 Ur-Ghuls?


Yeah. They're good, but with the secondaries changing, I think their stock is down a little bit. WWSWF isn't as necessary since other secondaries got better, and they give up 2 points on Thin Their Ranks (or whatever it's called) now. So they aren't quite as good in secondaries, but still a very solid inclusion.


I think the liquifier nerf only really paved the way for Chronos to start popping up. They still have auto-hitting flamers so they're just going to do Dark Technomancers instead. A harmonculus nearby can heal mortal wounds suffered from 1s to hit on the Vortex and they can bring themselves back from the dead by killing in combat. And they have a re-roll 1s to wound aura and the strat to treat themselves or a nearby unit as turn 5 on PfP if they kill a unit with a 1CP strat. They just have a lot going on and they seem really solid. Scratch building my 2nd one today!
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sweetbacon
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sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 16:59

Yep. 24 wounds that put out a ton of attacks on the charge and if they’re BH, have a 5++/5+++ on Turn 3. They’ve surprisingly durable and annoying to remove relative to how cheap they are.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 19:57

Are these used to accompany an Archon (to make use of their Bodyguard ability) or do they just go out on their own?

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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 21:29

They can accompany an Archon or act independently, although an Archon standing in the open on an objective with the Court nearby out of LOS to take advantage of the bodyguard rule is also something I’ve seen.
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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 04 2021, 22:06

@sweetbacon wrote:
They can accompany an Archon or act independently, although an Archon standing in the open on an objective  with the Court nearby out of LOS to take advantage of the bodyguard rule is also something I’ve seen.  


I've also seen him used to stop overwatch. Declare charge with Archon and they can't shoot him because he's within 3" of the court with sslyth. Then declare charge with the court now that the Archon is engaged.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 05 2021, 08:28

Grisly Trophies and PGL's are probably my favourite combo. The ability to chip away some mortal wounds every turn is very handy and with D3 attempts per weapon per turn it adds up surprisingly quickly.

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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 05 2021, 12:07

And PGL is a blast weapon. In addition, grizzly trophies work very well with Dark Creed and the Incubis Tormentors.

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sweetbacon
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sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 05 2021, 12:30

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Grisly Trophies and PGL's are probably my favourite combo. The ability to chip away some mortal wounds every turn is very handy and with D3 attempts per weapon per turn it adds up surprisingly quickly.

As the meta moves to large 20 model units of infantry that are quite durable, I can see the PGL and Grisly Trophies combo being a good way for us to counter the defensive buffs these units can get.
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 05 2021, 21:05

@sweetbacon wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
Grisly Trophies and PGL's are probably my favourite combo. The ability to chip away some mortal wounds every turn is very handy and with D3 attempts per weapon per turn it adds up surprisingly quickly.

As the meta moves to large 20 model units of infantry that are quite durable, I can see the PGL and Grisly Trophies combo being a good way for us to counter the defensive buffs these units can get.  

I'd be glad to see blobs of 20 over the other side of the table, more for my incubi to clean up!
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 06 2021, 14:21

As a Competitive player in a cut-throat Meta, you basically NEED to tailor to the AdMech match up. Their recent FAQ wasnt a reballance like our DT nerf (which was the second FAQ for us, about a month from release).

#1 - Mandrakes. These infiltrating screeners were important before, they are basically now required. The AdMech equivilent is 10 points more (85) for double the wounds, more durability, better shooting, and better punching. You NEED to screen these guys out (along with their horse Raiders, and teleporting troops).

I am also considering dropping most of my Wyches in favor of Incubi. Wyches are a great hoard clearer, but they do squat all against AdMech. Going with Black Heart and a Realspace Raid will allow Turn 1 Advance + Charge, which appears to be required in the Ad Mech match up (see comment above regarding their Turn 1 Alpha). I have yet to try this out, but 3x5 Black Heart Incubi may be a partial solution (D2 and high AP should clear thru a fair amount of AdMech).

I really wish our hoard clearing units worked against AdMech (wyches and shredder scourges). As it stands right now, those hoard troop units will be sitting with a 2+ armour save (and possibly Transhuman) against us, so we need to adapt.

Something to keep in mind with the AdMech match up: They can only really buff 2 units of their troops to insane levels.

-One troop gets the "Auto wound on 4s to hit" (strat, so can only be used once per phase), and can be further buffed with a 2+ reroll to hit, and AP-1

-Second troop gets the "4 shots per gun" (strat, so can only be used once per phase, and requires a different gun than the above strat). Can also get the 2+ reroll to hit, and AP-2

Either of these units can teleport into you Turn 1, so those Mandrakes are REAL important. Also, we need to REALLY use terrain to hide from that Turn 1 shooting phase. My first game against them didnt have enough Line of Blocking Terrain, and he killed 700 points before I even got to move. Second game I got better terrain, and "only" lost 400 points before I got to move :/

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Silverglade
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Silverglade

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 08 2021, 18:15

@sekac wrote:
@sweetbacon wrote:
They can accompany an Archon or act independently, although an Archon standing in the open on an objective  with the Court nearby out of LOS to take advantage of the bodyguard rule is also something I’ve seen.  


I've also seen him used to stop overwatch. Declare charge with Archon and they can't shoot him because he's within 3" of the court with sslyth. Then declare charge with the court now that the Archon is engaged.


Just seeing this. Does that actually work? I'd have to go back to rules, but I wouldn't have thought that the rules preventing targeting a character would apply to over-watch. But to be honest that's more just my feeling/ understanding on "targetting" vs. overwatch on it rather than researching in the rules.
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sekac
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sekac

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PostSubject: Re: Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises?   Sleeper hits/pleasant surprises? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 09 2021, 00:33

@Silverglade wrote:
@sekac wrote:
@sweetbacon wrote:
They can accompany an Archon or act independently, although an Archon standing in the open on an objective  with the Court nearby out of LOS to take advantage of the bodyguard rule is also something I’ve seen.  


I've also seen him used to stop overwatch. Declare charge with Archon and they can't shoot him because he's within 3" of the court with sslyth. Then declare charge with the court now that the Archon is engaged.


Just seeing this.  Does that actually work?  I'd have to go back to rules, but I wouldn't have thought that the rules preventing targeting a character would apply to over-watch.   But to be honest that's more just my feeling/ understanding on "targetting" vs. overwatch on it rather than researching in the rules.

Yeah that's how it works. Overwatch follows the same rules as a shooting attack with 3 exceptions:


1) Only 6s hit
2) The charging unit must be targeted with it
3) Abilities that prevent a unit from being targeted unless it is the closest (like Look Out Sir) don't work.


I could see an argument of intent that exception 3 should apply to Cold-blooded Bodyguard, but that isn't what Overwatch says. It is specific to abilities that are worded like LOS. Cold-blooded Bodyguard is not because it offers more protection than LOS. It simply says "While this unit contains any Sslyth models, while a friendly ARCHON is within 3" of this unit, enemy models cannot target that ARCHON unit with ranged attacks." Pretty simple. He is close, therefore he cannot be shot at.
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