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 Realspace Raid take 2

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toldavf
sekac
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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


Posts : 599
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 04:47

Here is my second try on a realspace raid list Smile
this time, i'm really focusing on the advantages given to blades for hire models.
Also using the cult of strife detachment for Drazhar and Lelith (really just for fun and fluff) and the so good stratagems it unlocks
There will be 5 Incubis and 5 Wyches per raider, and Drazhar and a Succubus to lead each one
The 2 other Raiders will be for my Kabalites and Cult of Strife Wyches

As usual, comments and tips are always welcome Smile


Raids for Hire
Drukhari - Strike Force - Eternal War ( 7CP - 2000PT - 0PT )


Drukhari Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 1620PT )
SUB-FACTIONS: Kabal of the Black Heart, Cult of the Red Grief, Artists of the Flesh, Realspace Raid

HQ
WARLORD: Archon (85) Blast pistol, Venom blade
LORDS OF COMMORRAGH UPGRADE: Splintered Genius
TRAITS: Consummate Weaponmaster
RELICS: Writ of the Living Muse

Haemonculus (100)
LORDS OF COMMORRAGH UPGRADE: Alchemical Maestro
TRAITS: Master Regenesist
Relics: The Nightmare Doll
STRATAGEMS: Alliance of Agony, Prizes from the Dark City

Succubus (60)
TRAITS: Precision Blows
COMBAT DRUGS: Adrenalight
RELICS: The Blood Glaive
STRATAGEMS: Alliance of Agony, Prizes from the Dark City

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (135)
1x Kabalite Warrior: Dark lance
1x Sybarite
2x Kabalite Warrior: Blaster
6x Kabalite Warrior
FAVOURED RETINUES UPGRADE: Kabalite Trueborn

Wracks (120)
1x Acothyst: Electrocorrosive whip, Hexrifle
2x Wrack: Ossefactor
7x Wrack
FAVOURED RETINUES UPGRADE: Haemoxytes

Wyches (50)
1x Hekatrix
4x Wych
COMBAT DRUGS: Grave Lotus

Wyches (50)
1x Hekatrix
4x Wych
COMBAT DRUGS: Grave Lotus

ELITES
Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

Incubi (80)
1x Klaivex: Demiklaives
4x Incubus

Mandrakes (75)
1x Nightfiend
4x Mandrake

Mandrakes (75)
1x Nightfiend
4x Mandrake

HEAVY SUPPORT
Talos (330)
3x Talos: 2x Heat lance

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Raider (95)

Raider (95)

Raider (95)

Raider (95)

Drukhari Patrol Detachment ( 2CP - 380PT )
SUB-FACTION: Cult of Strife

HQ
Drazhar (145)

Lelith Hesperax (90)

TROOPS
Wyches (145)
1x Hekatrix: Power sword
1x Wych: Shardnet and impaler
1x Wych: Hydra gauntlets
1x Wych: Razorflails
6x Wych
FAVOURED RETINUES UPGRADE: Hekatrix Bloodbrides
COMBAT DRUGS: Grave Lotus

STRATAGEMS
Alliance of Agony (1CP)
Prizes from the Dark City (2CP)

Total Command Points: 9/12
Reinforcement Points: 0
Total Points: 2000/2000
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 12:47

Just keep in mind that the Red Grief Cult units dont get CoS Strats, even with the second patrol.

Also, dont forget that all CORE units benefit from the Archon reroll, including your RG Wyches and Coven stuff. On Turn 3 even your Haemoxytes will be hitting real hard (hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s).

Looks more like a "fun" list than a tournament style. But still has a lot of punch and speed

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


Posts : 599
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 13:51

thanks for the reminder but they were already taken into account Wink
But indeed, its more a fun list than a competitive one (as every list i will probably ever build) but i try to make it at least decent Wink after all, fun = play an actual game............being wiped out is not the definition of fun (and wiping out the opponent neither!)

Also a thing to always consider in my list, is that we play with the open play cards, so no secondary objectives there

The red grief i'm just giving it a try, cause i always tend to go Cursed Blade, but i want to do something a little bit different this time.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 16:55

I dont see any upgrades on your Raiders.

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


Posts : 599
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 19:09

All my raiders are equiped with Dark Lances, and thats it Wink
No spare points for Grisly trophies or stuff like that Sad
But i'm not a big fan of those grisly trophies just because of the sooooooooo small radius (i don't know for you, but i don't like seeing my Raiders almost in close contact with my enemies).
(i'm pretty sure you were refering to the Grisly Trophies??)
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf


Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 20:53

Seems like a pretty strong list in melee, allot of warm bodies and a good number of hammers too. This would e an interesting list to play.

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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


Posts : 1661
Join date : 2018-04-02

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28 2021, 22:23

Very minor point but I think your CP total might be out. Unless I'm mistaken you've spent 2 on artefacts, 1 on extra Warlord traits and another 2 on the Patrol, so shouldn't you have 7/12 left?

That aside, I'm curious as to where you plan to send the Archon? He seems to have a lot of extra buffing power (at least by DE standards) from RSR and the Writ... yet he doesn't seem to have a whole lot to buff. Razz

I wonder if he'd be better off leading the second Incubi/Wych Raider (with Drazhar still leading the first)? I suggest this because, unlike the Succubus, he can actually buff both the Incubi and the Wyches.

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sekac
Wych
sekac


Posts : 665
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 02:13

I'm not sure you'll get much value out of Writ of the Living Muse in this list. If you plan on doing a combo of wych+incubi, then the Writ will only ever benefit 5 Incubi (wyches can't use it, even though they do get his re-roll 1s to hit aura). Mandrakes technically can, but it's unlikely they will be in range.


Considering this, and that your list is at only 7 CP, I would drop the Writ and save 1 CP. But as you say, this is a fun list and you want to try out a combo, go for it. Just keep it in mind. By far, the best beneficiaries of the Writ are actually scourges. I really like 2 shredder squads keeping the Archon company and jumping around to push units off mid-board objectives. 


Aside from that, one tactic you might want to try is having the Archon lead the Talos around for the first few turns while tank hunting. The re-roll 1s to hit helps their 4+BS, and you could have him 3" in front of the lead one, ready to surge forward and get his aura in range of other combats nearby.

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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 12:33

@sekac wrote:
I'm not sure you'll get much value out of Writ of the Living Muse in this list.

Could just be me but I find the whole RSR/Writ thing very awkward. It seems like in most cases you end up wasting either the Writ or the Archon's own aura.
- Kabalites/Trueborn benefit from both but are usually in a transport, where they can't benefit from either (plus, even if they could, the Archon would have nothing else to do besides twiddling his thumbs).
- The Court of the Archon benefits from both but is a bit of a mess outside of maybe Sslyth (and if I was going that route, I'd honestly want a different buff for them anyway - probably Poison Tongue).
- Cult units benefit from the Archon's Aura but not the Writ.
- Coven units benefit from the Archon's Aura but not the Writ.
- Mandrakes benefit from the Writ but not the Archon's aura.
- Scourges benefit from both but leave you with the Necron Destroyer Lord problem, where you've got a melee unit babysitting shooty units. It's doable but it seems a bit of a waste.
That leaves... Incubi?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get at you or your tactics, Kalmah. Just saying that I find the Writ really awkward in general as it doesn't seem to mesh at all well with the Archon or his RSR aura.

Of course, I also realise it's not a super-competitive list or anything so if you're taking the Writ just for fluff by all means go for it.

It also occurs to me that our artefact selection... leaves something to be desired. So if you're just taking the Writ for lack of better options, sure, I get that.

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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
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Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 14:16

@Kalmah wrote:
All my raiders are equiped with Dark Lances, and thats it Wink
No spare points for Grisly trophies or stuff like that Sad
But i'm not a big fan of those grisly trophies just because of the sooooooooo small radius (i don't know for you, but i don't like seeing my Raiders almost in close contact with my enemies).
(i'm pretty sure you were refering to the Grisly Trophies??)
Mostly the trophies, jup, but PGL too. And the Aura is good enough, because you measure from the model, not the base.

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


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Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 15:44

thanks all for all your clever tips Smile
To answer you all, the Writ is here because i never tried it and thought (maybe i was wrong) that it was actually good in a RSR detachment.

This lead me to one point: why the hell the only HQ i NEVER know what to with it is the damn Archon? No matter what, it's always counter intuitive what he can do............he's a melee character but he only hangs with shooty people......Where he belongs is inside a Raider, but there he can't do a thing....

this unit would only need access to an Hexrifle (and better yet a relic replacing an Hexrifle) and he would be perfect!

I know people love the Djinn Blade, but again, i find it awkwardly against the intended role of the unit.

As for the CP, you are right Soulless, it's just that i'm using the GW app and for now, we can't use the Prize from the Dark City or Tolerated Ambition strats twice, so i probably lost count Wink

Regarding the raiders with Incubis, indeed i will try to figure out something.........also i think you are right that the aura of the Archon will be more useful if he's with the Incubis/Wyches, cause i will be more tempted to make him land and thus, have access to his buffs (and with this idea in mind, than making him become a melee master becomes far more interesting cause this way i can leave my Kabalites in their Raider doing what they are good at while anjoying (finally) an aura!)

Thanks again all!
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 22:57

@Kalmah wrote:

This lead me to one point: why the hell the only HQ i NEVER know what to with it is the damn Archon? No matter what, it's always counter intuitive what he can do............he's a melee character but he only hangs with shooty people......Where he belongs is inside a Raider, but there he can't do a thing....

Yeah, the Archon is in a bit of an awkward position at the moment.

It seems clear that GW didn't want him to equal or overshadow Succubi in melee (hence his only half-decent melee weapon actually getting made worse), but they didn't give him any alternative role, let alone one that synergises with Kabal. He has no long- or even medium-range to speak of, nor any meaningful support ability. He really doesn't feel like a tactician or flexible leader.

The only ranged option that exists for him is the Soul Seeker, which is tied to Poison Tongue. Honestly, looking at it, I feel you could make it his basic weapon and it still wouldn't be overpowered. The thing is, a Soul Seeker Archon sitting in a Venom with Sslyth or Mandrakes or something is really the only Archon build I can think of who isn't just a suicide-missile for me to throw at my opponent.

As you say, what he really needs is the option to take a Hexrifle or some other half-decent ranged weapon. Hell, bump his standard pistol up to 18" and give it better stats.

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 23:07

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Kalmah wrote:

This lead me to one point: why the hell the only HQ i NEVER know what to with it is the damn Archon? No matter what, it's always counter intuitive what he can do............he's a melee character but he only hangs with shooty people......Where he belongs is inside a Raider, but there he can't do a thing....

Yeah, the Archon is in a bit of an awkward position at the moment.

It seems clear that GW didn't want him to equal or overshadow Succubi in melee (hence his only half-decent melee weapon actually getting made worse), but they didn't give him any alternative role, let alone one that synergises with Kabal. He has no long- or even medium-range to speak of, nor any meaningful support ability. He really doesn't feel like a tactician or flexible leader.

The only ranged option that exists for him is the Soul Seeker, which is tied to Poison Tongue. Honestly, looking at it, I feel you could make it his basic weapon and it still wouldn't be overpowered. The thing is, a Soul Seeker Archon sitting in a Venom with Sslyth or Mandrakes or something is really the only Archon build I can think of who isn't just a suicide-missile for me to throw at my opponent.

As you say, what he really needs is the option to take a Hexrifle or some other half-decent ranged weapon. Hell, bump his standard pistol up to 18" and give it better stats.

I have said it before our archons have to use the same equipment as basic warriors, with the exception of the husk blade ofc. Not really all that great for a rich and powerful noble.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29 2021, 23:56

@toldavf wrote:
I have said it before our archons have to use the same equipment as basic warriors, with the exception of the husk blade ofc. Not really all that great for a rich and powerful noble.

And let's be honest - the Huskblade doesn't exactly come across as a weapon so rare and powerful only Archons can afford to use them.

As a comparison:
Spoiler:
 

But yeah, you'd think they could at least say that the Archon uses Master Crafted or Relic equivalents of those weapons (as an excuse to give them better stats).

(Or, as Kalmah suggested, open up their wargear options and let them take stuff like Hexrifles so that they're not stuck trying to do melee.)

I think it's telling that I was looking for a relic to suggest in place of the Writ in this list (specifically for an Archon who wouldn't be jumping into melee, since all the HQ slots in the melee Raiders were already taken) but ended up drawing a blank.

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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30 2021, 00:03

I like mine. PT with Agonizer, Soulheim, Blast Pistol and consumate Weaponsmaster.
Hits everything on 2+, wounds everything on 3+, has an inbuilt +1 to hit and 5+ fnp.
In addition he gets +1D, which benefits both weapons nicely. All in all, he gets his job done.
The real challenge is to find out, what his job is. Holding out, till other units do their jobs mostly,
But sometimes an Archon has to do, what an Archon has to do.

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30 2021, 04:09

agree i really love the consumate weaponmaster WT.
But don'T forget this only applies to melee weapons
i'm building a list with poison tongue detachment and gotta say my Archon really looks like yours.
I'll post this list soon enough Wink
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Dalferon
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PostSubject: Re: Realspace Raid take 2   Realspace Raid take 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 08 2021, 03:22

@Zenotaph wrote:
I like mine. PT with Agonizer, Soulheim, Blast Pistol and consumate Weaponsmaster.
Hits everything on 2+, wounds everything on 3+, has an inbuilt +1 to hit and 5+ fnp.
In addition he gets +1D, which benefits both weapons nicely. All in all, he gets his job done.
The real challenge is to find out, what his job is. Holding out, till other units do their jobs mostly,
But sometimes an Archon has to do, what an Archon has to do.

Consummate weaponmaster only effects Melee weapons, still pretty good but no buff on the blast pistol.
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