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 Game v Ultramarine Successors

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Void Prince
Hellion
Void Prince


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Join date : 2016-08-27
Location : West Midlands

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PostSubject: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 09:40

Greetings all,

I have a game arranged this weekend. 2K points v a club member who will be playing his tournament orientated force.

Simple question; What am I likely to face? Any suggested general tactics to use?

To help my own army will consist of 3 Patrols; BH - Archon, Trueborn, 1 x Troop , 4 Raiders, 2 Ravagers, 1 x small Incubi unit
                                                                 OR - Archon, Trueborn, 1 xTroop, 1 Raider, 1 Ravager
                                                                  COS - 2 Succubus, Bloodbrides,   1 x Wyches
D/L & Blasters are maxed out where can I can as are the Wyche weapons etc. All HQ's are designed to be good - scary in close combat.

Cheers in  anticipation
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2121
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 13:28

UM are generally built around their special characters, and to a lesser extent their pre-game redeploy strat.

Seems like they are not going for the classic G-Man + Dreadnaught build (because they are successors).

My guess is that he will be going with a punchy list, centered around a few units that deploy three units 9" from your deployment zone (Invictor Warsuit, Phobos Infantry), then if he gets second turn he will pull those units back into a good hiding space.

Main tactic vs this build is to have Mandrakes who "zone out" the area 9" from your DZ to mitigate this tactic. Unfortunately you do not have Mandrakes, so the primary counter isnt possible.

How I would play this, is to deploy pretty far back in your DZ, screening your force with empty Raiders. Probably Screaming Jets your Ravager to stop it dying first thing (if you go second). We have enough speed that if you do get first turn, you can just boot it up the field. The trick will be to keep your force consolidated and not spreading out too far.
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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 17:11

If you’re facing a UM tournament list, odds are it will look a lot like what John Lennon took to the ACO.  The core is two Invictor Warsuits, two Volkite Contemptors, and two plasma cannon Redemptors, and Suppressors. The Warsuits are particularly nasty in UM because they can scout forward for guaranteed first turn charges if going first or redeploy out of harm’s way if going second.  This list was specifically designed by Lennon to kill Drukhari.  If your opponent goes first and you don’t have Mandrakes to zone out the Warsuits, it’s almost an auto-lose situation since you’ll be too busy dealing with them (and they can pop 2-3 Raiders between shooting and CC) to do anything about his heavy hitter Dreadnoughts who will kill anything they see.  Plus he has enough Phobos units to score well on both the primary and secondary.
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Void Prince
Hellion
Void Prince


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 17:17

fisheyes wrote:
UM are generally built around their special characters, and to a lesser extent their pre-game redeploy strat.

Seems like they are not going for the classic G-Man + Dreadnaught build (because they are successors).

My guess is that he will be going with a punchy list, centered around a few units that deploy three units 9" from your deployment zone (Invictor Warsuit, Phobos Infantry), then if he gets second turn he will pull those units back into a good hiding space.

Main tactic vs this build is to have Mandrakes who "zone out" the area 9" from your DZ to mitigate this tactic. Unfortunately you do not have Mandrakes, so the primary counter isnt possible.

How I would play this, is to deploy pretty far back in your DZ, screening your force with empty Raiders. Probably Screaming Jets your Ravager to stop it dying first thing (if you go second). We have enough speed that if you do get first turn, you can just boot it up the field. The trick will be to keep your force consolidated and not spreading out too far.

Cheers for the suggestions.

I could always drop one Ravager to add in 2 small squads of Mandrakes or extra troops squads? Just a bit worried this would leave me a bit light on the armour killing stuff.
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Void Prince
Hellion
Void Prince


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 17:21

sweetbacon wrote:
If you’re facing a UM tournament list, odds are it will look a lot like what John Lennon took to the ACO.  The core is two Invictor Warsuits, two Volkite Contemptors, and two plasma cannon Redemptors, and Suppressors.  The Warsuits are particularly nasty in UM because they can scout forward for guaranteed first turn charges if going first or redeploy out of harm’s way if going second.  This list was specifically designed by Lennon to kill Drukhari.  If your opponent goes first and you don’t have Mandrakes to zone out the Warsuits, it’s almost an auto-lose situation since you’ll be too busy dealing with them (and they can pop 2-3 Raiders between shooting and CC) to do anything about his heavy hitter Dreadnoughts who will kill anything they see.  Plus he has enough Phobos units to score well on both the primary and secondary.

Double thanks Sweetbacon...
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 23 2021, 13:45

My anti tank is basically just Trueborn, 1 Ravager, 4 Raiders, Reavers (who dont actually do Anti Tank, more of a threat/psychological unit).

Would really recomend 2 "point scoring" units of Manrakes/Scourges. They help screen out and score All Fronts/Scramblers (ROD). They take some practice to use well, but worth their points

Yziel likes this post

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Void Prince
Hellion
Void Prince


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 24 2021, 15:51

fisheyes wrote:
My anti tank is basically just Trueborn, 1 Ravager, 4 Raiders, Reavers (who dont actually do Anti Tank, more of a threat/psychological unit).

Would really recomend 2 "point scoring" units of Manrakes/Scourges. They help screen out and score All Fronts/Scramblers (ROD). They take some practice to use well, but worth their points

Quick postscript; I won the Game - by one point!

@ fisheyes; I get what you say about having some sort of screen ( I used two small troop squads), but managed to get first turn, so he just drew his Warsuits back. I also saw the need for some sort of DS threat, I have noted your views on this in other posts.

My difficulty is what to drop and will for instance a squad of Scourges with blasters really do the job of a Ravager i.e. in terms of lasting more than 1-2 turns scratch
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 25 2021, 13:24

Hmm, dont think that Ravagers and Scourges fill the same roll.

Cards on the table; I am not very experienced with Scourges. Played them in a few games, only managed to use them once. My main mistake with them was trying to kill stuff with them (they were not equiped with any special weapons) instead of scoring points. Blasters may work, I honestly dont know.

I like Ravagers because they screen out a large part of your DZ (due to model size), and 3 full Lances are quite nice for that reliable damage. D6 damage on the Blasters is a fairly large nerf (but they only cost 100pts vs 140pts)

I am not 100% clear on what your list actually is, so I cant really give you advice on what to drop. But I will say that you need at least 2 units of Mandrakes/Scourges to score points and screen
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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 25 2021, 16:37

How is D6 damage in Blasters a nerf?

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 25 2021, 17:53

Compared to Ravagers with a full Dark Lance and its reliable Damage:3+D3.

IDK about you, but it feels like my blasters never roll above a 2 for damage XD
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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 25 2021, 18:10

OK, I see your point, but Blasters had D6 damage most of the time.
Its more like a serious buff to Dark Lances. Or am I missing something?

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: Game v Ultramarine Successors   Game v Ultramarine  Successors I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 25 2021, 18:21

Ya, maybe I could have phrased that better.

My meaning is that Dark Lances are better than Blasters. The reliable damage really helps, especially on our units with paper thin armor (aka, everything). When we shoot something, we basically NEED to kill it.

Fire and Fade at 2CP is pretty brutal, and we can only use it once per turn :/
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