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 Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?

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Yziel
CptMetal
toldavf
Skulnbonz
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CptMetal
Dracon
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PostSubject: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 12:58

I know, many people here will hate me, but I found a Shardstorm Box lying around in my stuff. I have had this for years now and I have never assembled it because I focused on Kabals and Covens.
Now Cults are awesome and I want to build it.
The question is:
Which Cult are you preferring and why? (The next game and my 1st 9th ed game will be against the Sons of Magnus btw).
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 13:06

Cursed blade is pretty much a free combat drug (+1 S)
the 6+ mortal wound bounce back is great
So is the strat.

Strife has all the neat strats and toys, but I 100% always go cursed blade.

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Yziel
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 14:04

If you want to get spicy you can go Berzerker Fugue for 5+++ mortal wound protection and exploding 6s to hit Smile
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 14:44

Yziel wrote:
If you want to get spicy you can go Berzerker Fugue for 5+++ mortal wound protection and exploding 6s to hit Smile

What is that? A warlord trait?
I am leaning towards competetive edge or precision blows with tryptich whip.

And consumate weaponmaster (that +1D) archon from poisoned tongue with agonizer.

(I do not have any wracks, so coven is out. I have grotesques though).
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 15:15

He is talking about the Custom Cults that you can build.

IMHO Cult of Strife is just too far ahead of all the other Cults. Cursed Blade is the go-to if you are building a RSR (since you cant use the strats), but I dont really see the need to go RSR right now.

Ignore Overwatch and Move/Charge thru models is just too spicy to pass up. Plus you get the 4++ strat, double attack, reroll wound, extra AP. That is one spicy meatball.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 15:21

CptMetal wrote:
Yziel wrote:
If you want to get spicy you can go Berzerker Fugue for 5+++ mortal wound protection and exploding 6s to hit Smile

What is that? A warlord trait?
I am leaning towards competetive edge or precision blows with tryptich whip.

And consumate weaponmaster (that +1D) archon from poisoned tongue with agonizer.

(I do not have any wracks, so coven is out. I have grotesques though).

Berzerker Fugue is one of the custom Cults.


Skulnbonz wrote:
Cursed blade is pretty much a free combat drug (+1 S)
the 6+ mortal wound bounce back is great
So is the strat.

Strife has all the neat strats and toys, but I 100% always go cursed blade.

That's interesting to hear as I've been rather torn between the two.

Strife (especially with the extra stuff in Book of Rust) seems like more of a toolbox, but I can't help but appreciate the simplicity/directness of Cursed Blade.

I take it then that the mortal wounds on 6+ saves is quite significant on the table?

Also, out of interest, have you gotten any mileage out of their Relic or Warlord Trait?

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 15:40

fisheyes wrote:
He is talking about the Custom Cults that you can build.

IMHO Cult of Strife is just too far ahead of all the other Cults. Cursed Blade is the go-to if you are building a RSR (since you cant use the strats), but I dont really see the need to go RSR right now.

Ignore Overwatch and Move/Charge thru models is just too spicy to pass up. Plus you get the 4++ strat, double attack, reroll wound, extra AP. That is one spicy meatball.

Sadly, I do not have the book of rust. So the standard Codex has to do. And I thought "S5 witches must be great against those tin-men and his demon prince(s)"
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Yziel
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 15:50

Berzerker Fugue is indeed one of the Custom Cults from the Codex. I honestly think it would be pretty good tech vs Thousand Sons and fun to run something a bit different.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 17:36

Yziel wrote:
Berzerker Fugue is indeed one of the Custom Cults from the Codex. I honestly think it would be pretty good tech vs Thousand Sons and fun to run something a bit different.

Hm. Good point. A Succubbus with tryptick whip and competitive edge and berzerker fugue seems rad.
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 19:19

CptMetal wrote:
Yziel wrote:
Berzerker Fugue is indeed one of the Custom Cults from the Codex. I honestly think it would be pretty good tech vs Thousand Sons and fun to run something a bit different.

Hm. Good point. A Succubbus with tryptick whip and competitive edge and berzerker fugue seems rad.

Am I right in thinking that every 6 to hit with that build would inflict 2 mortal wounds and also generate a regular hit?

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 20:31

considering the amount of flamers that thousand sons can rock, strife all the way get book of rust and profit.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 20:36

That's not competitive edge. You are thinking about the warlord trait precision blows.
That makes every 6 to hit go directly to mortal wounds.
Berzerker Fugue makes every 6 to hit score an additional hit.

So combined a 6 to hit should give double the damage characteristic in mortal wounds or give once the number and a normal hit, effectively giving the mortal wounds ON TOP of the normal hit.

What do you guys think?

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Yziel
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 20:42

The additional hit would not be a mortal wound it would use the normal damage route since the additional attack did not roll a 6, it was generated by a 6.
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Lord Asvaldir
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 17 2021, 21:23

If you take the strife supplement into account, I think it's not much of a competition. The extra strife relics/traits/strats are so good the other cults just can't compete. The extra strats in particular are such an incredible set of little tricks that I wish they were just generic cult strats.

If you don't want to use the strife supplement, then I think any of the 3 main cults are equally viable, cursed blade for a little stronger punch, red grief if you want a little more speed. None of them in particular are "better" against t-sons, our new codex vs an old codex like T-sons you really don't need to be adjusting your list to face them.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 00:00

CptMetal wrote:
That's not competitive edge. You are thinking about the warlord trait precision blows.

Ah, you're right of course. Well caught.

But yeah, Competitive Edge also seems good with that build.


Lord Asvaldir wrote:
If you take the strife supplement into account, I think it's not much of a competition. The extra strife relics/traits/strats are so good the other cults just can't compete. The extra strats in particular are such an incredible set of little tricks that I wish they were just generic cult strats.  

It does seem weird that they gave a whole page of extra strats (not to mention relics and warlord traits) to Strife and only to Strife. I know they just made a new Lelith model but still.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 10:27

As the OP doesn't have the Book of Rust, I think Cursed Blade is the way to go, with +1S combat drugs. Wounding on 4+ or even 3+ is generally better than extra attacks.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons?   Which Witches to take Against Thousand Sons? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 18 2021, 13:23

Agreed. Cursed Blade is the way if you are not taking Strife.

I would not bother with the Custom Cults. IMHO the only real use is the one that grants MWs on the charge, if you need to deal with C'Tan/Ghaz and are not taking Hellions/Reavers. Pretty niche if you ask me.
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