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  A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus

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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

Posts : 53
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 01 2021, 22:18

Who wants a character with truly eye watering offence? us apparently Very Happy lets take a look.

Succubus
They Wych cult leaders are among the best melee characters in the game. Their dps is absolutely no joke once upgraded. Base line they come with an agoniser (I'm sure everyone is familiar with this piece of kit) and the archite glaive a +2 str ap3 damae one weapon, a succubus can happily throw out 6 str 6 attacks before any upgrades (yes ok I put the point from combat drugs into strength in that example).

However it is only when Obsessions, traits and relics are added that they become truly horrifying. A few of the builds I have seen (that don't rely on infinite attacks) are;

Quick silver fighter, triptych whip, adrenalight; Nothing flashy here just a bag of attacks that are poison 2+ -3 ap and damage 2. Will beat most characters to death happily and will do high levels of damage to most squads.

Treacherous deceiver, traitors embrace; The "stop hitting yourself" build I haven't mentioned it till now but I will here a succubus is only 60 points way less than almost all the other apex melee characters. This build can be a good way to deal with a troublesome character or monster with mutualy assured destruction.

Quick silver fighter, The blood glaive, Grave lotus; 8 strength 6 attacks with -3 ap and damage 3, great vs all those 3 wound models running around these days, can make an absolute mess of most characters as it can kill in 2 hits.

(book of rust booo) Precision blows, Dark lotus toxin, grave lotus/adrenalight, wych weapons; This is a nasty combo, you can role 14 dice with razorflails and any 6 to hit inflicts 2 mortal wounds or 8 dice with a shardnet and Impaler and any 6's do 3 mortal wounds. role slightly above average on either weapon and you will be dishing out allot of hurt.

Well that's allot Of the offensive stuff, lets talk defense and buffs, so the succubus has as standard a 4+ invun vs all attacks and not much else, considering that most of the weapons that are thrown at characters have a healthy ap the 4+ is about as good as you can expect, that said it does leave her open to allot of small arms fire that a more heavily armored character would shrug off all in all though I rate her defense as good.

Buff wise wych cult core units within 6" reroll 1's to wound in melee which will net you a bit more damage in a fight, it's a solid little buff so don't forget it's there. Debuff wise a succubus also has no escape so her + wych squad means 2 rolls and if you win either you are locked in melee this turn which is great news for you!.

Lelith Hesperax
Well here comes a bag of special rules :/. Well there's allot to be said about Lelith she's clocks in at 50% more than a regular succubus (technically she's a master so we will let her off) and stat wise has one more attack (unless you take adrenalight then you are exactly the same stats).

Her unique weapons a pair of butterknives Lelith's blades are +1 str, -3ap andddddd damage 1... they do mean that any 6 to hit gives 2 hits instead of one though (pff even a wrack can learn to do that) and combined with her warlord trait (kinda manditory if you take her) she can generate 4 hits for every 6 rolled (don't forget that procs blade artist). Ok so that's not too bad but you only generate 8 hits on average 2 less than a triptych whip succubus and in wounding her opponents she gets no help, those hits only convert too 4 wounds vs t4 or at most 3 wounds vs t5 not allot of damage, even if you are targeting a character and get rerolls on everything it is scarcely any more damage at 6 wounds and 4 wounds respectively that's really low for most succubus builds.

Defensively she's better than average with -1 to hit and a 4 up invun it's a nice addition but not overly impressive.

As a buff bot she lets cult of strife core units within 6 reroll 1's to hit and wound in melee, which I have to say is actually really good, turn 3 onward you can hit on 2+ with reroll 1's, it will help make back some of the damage deficit for taking Lelith.

Deadly dance is reskinned show stealer, I mean you have the master succubus keyword so I guess you should get the ability from it. I guess this means she unlocks blood brides.

Her natural perfection is ok, it's another way to amp her damage and keep her fighting, she can either charge if she fell back or fight again at the end of the phase if she destroyed any models. I mean yeah cool she can fight twice which means she might be able to kill 5 intercessors in a round... that's something allot of succubus builds can do trivially. I suppose she slaughters sisters of battle or aspect warriors with ease but vs those kind of opponents standard wychs outclass them so much that she's not needed.  

She's got no escape too I guess which is nice.

My problem with her is that she does so little for her points she hits like a wet noodle and that's a shame because her fluff is awesome damage 1 is so junk and makes no sense skillful enough to pick a weak spot in armour but can't hit anything vital apparently. Also her new model is well lets say a downgrade.

All in all I am not a fan and Lelith remains our worst character, until GW show her some love she will remain on the shelf (their store shelf).

Next time Urien Rakarth!
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CoolNamedArchon
Slave
CoolNamedArchon

Posts : 21
Join date : 2021-06-01
Location : Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 02 2021, 10:26

Have to say I'm thoroughly torn between a few builds, I'll probably mostly be facing marines so definitely need that 2D build with tryptich whips, landing 2 mortal wounds as a bonus seems great also. But as I'll be going cursed blade I'm also massively tempted by the "no you" build purely to sit across the table with a smug look on my face as my friends marine character gets blown up even if they win the fight hahaah.

Loving these little overviews overall!
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4434
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 02 2021, 12:19

No talk of Comp Edge? lol

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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 652
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 02 2021, 12:48

@amishprn86 wrote:
No talk of Comp Edge? lol
You serious? Suspect

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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

Posts : 53
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 02 2021, 21:20

@amishprn86 wrote:
No talk of Comp Edge? lol

I alluded too it but no not mentioning it was purposeful.
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amishprn86
Archon
amishprn86

Posts : 4434
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Location : Ohio

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 03 2021, 01:18

Comp edge is great on other things, TripWHip for example, don't ignore it just b.c it had 1 broken build. Now with the nerf TripWHip with Comp Edge is one of the better builds.

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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 652
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 03 2021, 01:36

True. For Cult of Stryfe. I normally go with Cursed Blade, but momentarily I try a custom cult for some Ld-bombing fun. cheers cheers

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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai

Posts : 1557
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 17:21

Something I'm curious about for those using a Master Succubus - how do you use Show Stealer?

Do you generally manage to blend anything she comes into contact with (and so you can use it to reposition), or do you use it to escape retaliation?

Part of the reason why I ask is that it initially seemed awesome that Succubi could potentially attack and then dart away before the enemy could retaliate, but then I started to wonder whether that would actually put you in a worse position (since the enemy can then shoot and charge you without needing to fall back).

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sekac
Wych
sekac

Posts : 595
Join date : 2017-06-03

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 08 2021, 18:37

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Something I'm curious about for those using a Master Succubus - how do you use Show Stealer?

Do you generally manage to blend anything she comes into contact with (and so you can use it to reposition), or do you use it to escape retaliation?

Part of the reason why I ask is that it initially seemed awesome that Succubi could potentially attack and then dart away before the enemy could retaliate, but then I started to wonder whether that would actually put you in a worse position (since the enemy can then shoot and charge you without needing to fall back).

It depends on a lot of things and it's true power is in its flexibility. As you say, jumping out of combat can be risky if your opponent has the resources to get to grips with her in their turn. If there is LoS blocking terrain, like a ruin, she can jump behind it and force your opponent to have to deal with her in melee, which is the exact opposite of what they want to do.

A combo I particularly like is keeping her close to a unit of wyches with Morvaine’s Agonizer. Both she and the wyches charge something and the wyches make sure to make base-to-base with enemy models and hit them with the agonizer so they can't fall back, but also leave space within the unit for her to jump to and move through.

The succubus hits her unit and then jumps into the wych squad. Then neither she nor the wyches can be targeted with shooting, and in your opponent's charge phase, she can heroically intervene and finish off the unit the wyches are stuck in with.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus     A returning players opinions on our units; Succubus  I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 09 2021, 00:53

@sekac wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Something I'm curious about for those using a Master Succubus - how do you use Show Stealer?

Do you generally manage to blend anything she comes into contact with (and so you can use it to reposition), or do you use it to escape retaliation?

Part of the reason why I ask is that it initially seemed awesome that Succubi could potentially attack and then dart away before the enemy could retaliate, but then I started to wonder whether that would actually put you in a worse position (since the enemy can then shoot and charge you without needing to fall back).

It depends on a lot of things and it's true power is in its flexibility. As you say, jumping out of combat can be risky if your opponent has the resources to get to grips with her in their turn. If there is LoS blocking terrain, like a ruin, she can jump behind it and force your opponent to have to deal with her in melee, which is the exact opposite of what they want to do.

A combo I particularly like is keeping her close to a unit of wyches with Morvaine’s Agonizer. Both she and the wyches charge something and the wyches make sure to make base-to-base with enemy models and hit them with the agonizer so they can't fall back, but also leave space within the unit for her to jump to and move through.

The succubus hits her unit and then jumps into the wych squad. Then neither she nor the wyches can be targeted with shooting, and in your opponent's charge phase, she can heroically intervene and finish off the unit the wyches are stuck in with.

Oh that's very cunning. I might well give that a go.

Thank you very much. Twisted Evil

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