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 New Codizes and what we think about them

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Marrath
Sarcron
Barking Agatha
Cerve
The Strange Dark One
Yziel
Some_Call_Me_Tim
krayd
Deckard_2049
Soulless Samurai
toldavf
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Burnage
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 892
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 28 2021, 19:20

And you have a Yu Gi Oh dueldisc wielding Witcher. That has to count. A bit.

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

Posts : 545
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Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 28 2021, 21:14

as Depeche Mode already said: Everything counts Wink
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1880
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 16:10

I actually like the dynamic pose of the Sorc. After all the memes, all I see is the YuGiOh dual disk, but I still like it.

I hope they get better rules than the Orks. My competitive gaming group is calling Orks DOA. I dont agree, but they are smarter than I am.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 16:43

Dead or alive? Suspect

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

Posts : 545
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Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 17:29

he probably means: dead on arrival
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1880
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 18:43

Ya, Dead on Arrival.

It was a phrase used a lot back in the 90s, Im pretty sure it was even in the Friends opening theme (Or so I hear from other people. Of course I would never watch that myself... Razz )
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 892
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 18:55

So, the new Ork Dex isnt solid?

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krayd
Hekatrix
krayd

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Location : Richmond, VA

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 20:26

I don't think I'd make that call until people actually start putting together lists and competing with them.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 21:30

lol cause as far as i remember.......when we only received our preview, we we're supposed to be DOA too Wink and look at what happened....... Shocked
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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29 2021, 22:06

Orks look pretty terrifying actually. The issue might be that playing them as a horde melee army is much weaker now. The real strength lies in their vehicles and their shooting. They’re at least an A tier army and once hobby lag catches up, it wouldn’t shock me to see them in the S tier.
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Yziel
Kabalite Warrior
Yziel

Posts : 135
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 02:07

Their strongest units in the new codex seem to be the Kill Rig (?) the variant with the Psyker on it, the Squig buggy, one of the planes and the character on large squig. Damn I've listened to several reviews and podcasts on this but ork unit names are so hard to remember...

Point is horde doesn't seem to be what a competitive Ork build is going to look like and you'll definitely want a fair few dark lances against them with how good their vehicles are.
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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 07:18

@Yziel wrote:
Their strongest units in the new codex seem to be the Kill Rig (?) the variant with the Psyker on it, the Squig buggy, one of the planes and the character on large squig. Damn I've listened to several reviews and podcasts on this but ork unit names are so hard to remember...

Point is horde doesn't seem to be what a competitive Ork build is going to look like and you'll definitely want a fair few dark lances against them with how good their vehicles are.

Yeah I have been running 2 squads of shredder scourges near my Archon with Writ for some very efficient shredders in anticipation of the T5 horde. I'm already reconsidering that setup, though they are handy.
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CptMetal
Dracon
CptMetal

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 09:35

@Zenotaph wrote:
Well, I am bavarian. 'Bier und Brezn' like we call them, are traditional food for us. Its almost historical. Really!

New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 Bier-brezel-weisswurst-300x198

The traditional sausage with beer, pretzel and a special sweet mustard came from my hometown Munich.
So, the term 'beer&pretzel-player' is quite amusing for a guy like me. But dont worry! I wont give a history lesson. lol!

West German here and they are called Bretzel. It's just that weird southern accent. Really nice guys but I do not understand a single word once they are drunk.

Back to the orks:
So a Kabal army is better suited against orks than the new-and-improved wyches?
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Yziel
Kabalite Warrior
Yziel

Posts : 135
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 10:00

Looks like Orks wont be very infantry focused so you'd for sure want AT vs them. I can Hellion being great for attacking the no-LoS buggies though
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fisheyes
Incubi
fisheyes

Posts : 1880
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 12:45

The main issue with Orks (according to my competitive group) is the 5" movement and only 1 turn of Advance+Charge.

I went thru a few of the WTC terrains on TTS, and that 5" movement on the basic Boyz is kinda a killer. Means they cant jump out of buildings (thru walls because Infantry) and walk onto points without Advancing. And if they Advance and still want to charge (because a canny opponent will just put some ObSec unit toe onto the far side of the objective) they need to pop the WAAGGH, which can only be used once.

Personally I think they will do fine, but you need to build the lists around the Komandos (basically Mandrakes) and Storm Boyz (basically Marine Assault Squads).

That Kill Rig with the shooting, psykic and punching is pretty darn good IMHO. The high T plus the 5++ (possibly from a Kustom Force Field Mek HQ) makes them pretty good against our Lance profile.

Oh, and Shredder Scourges are just SO GOOD. Even with no support, they are quickly becoming one of my favorite units. Orks, AdMech, Sisters, Dark Eldar, DG (Poxwalkers). They fit really well into most of the META match ups
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krayd
Hekatrix
krayd

Posts : 1119
Join date : 2011-10-03
Location : Richmond, VA

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 17:22

@fisheyes wrote:
The main issue with Orks (according to my competitive group) is the 5" movement and only 1 turn of Advance+Charge.

I went thru a few of the WTC terrains on TTS, and that 5" movement on the basic Boyz is kinda a killer. Means they cant jump out of buildings (thru walls because Infantry) and walk onto points without Advancing. And if they Advance and still want to charge (because a canny opponent will just put some ObSec unit toe onto the far side of the objective) they need to pop the WAAGGH, which can only be used once.

Personally I think they will do fine, but you need to build the lists around the Komandos (basically Mandrakes) and Storm Boyz (basically Marine Assault Squads).

That Kill Rig with the shooting, psykic and punching is pretty darn good IMHO. The high T plus the 5++ (possibly from a Kustom Force Field Mek HQ) makes them pretty good against our Lance profile.


I'm not sure what buildings they are failing to move out of. Most buildings/ruins have the 'breachable' attribute, so infantry should be able to walk right through the walls with no penalty.

I do think that orks not being able to fire while advancing, due the dakka attribute replacing assault, is a little weird.

However, with T5, I think that orks are going to be able to take a lot more punishment (from most armies) as they move in, so there's that.

I think that Trukkboys, with their ability to hop out and charge after the Trukk has moved, will be pretty disgusting.

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 17:42

damn............another army that have the one and only ability i truly want for us: transports that move and THEN can unload their troops...........come on! give us at least a stratagem that can do that!!! please pretty please!!!! Evil or Very Mad
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 892
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 17:56

Murderous Descent? Not quite the same, but pretty useful. Sometimes. Maybe. Depending on your reserves...

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 18:12

but murderous descent only makes you disembark as soon as the Transport has been put on the battlefield......so it cannot move and then disembark, so its not the same thing at all.

And between you and me, i really don't understand murderous descent (other than when used with the stratagem that allows you to put a vehicle in reserve if wholly within 9'' of the border).
I mean.....why not just put the Models that you are disembarking-as-soon-as-the transport-is-put-into-the-battlefield already in reserve without the transport? and then just bring them from the reserve as you would have done anyway.......you will save a good CP by doing so....maybe i'm not reading it right....cause seriously i don't understand it....
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sekac
Wych
sekac

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 18:25

@Zenotaph wrote:
Murderous Descent? Not quite the same, but pretty useful. Sometimes. Maybe. Depending on your reserves...

Murderous Decent is great, I've legit won games with it. It's best used with Cult of Strife for +1" to charge or Reduce Grief for re-roll charge.


My favorite use for it is in conjunction with the strat where you remove a transport from the table and put it into SR (the name escapes me). Pounding a part of a table with wyches and a succubus until everything is dead, then hopping in and showing up elsewhere next turn to rinse and repeat.


It works very well with both Retrieve Data and Engage On All Fronts. 
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph

Posts : 892
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 19:27

Example:
Venom with 5 Incubi is in strategic reserve, say because of the PT Stratagem.
Its turn 2. Venom comes from the sideline within 6" of the border.
With MD you can disembark and then charge. That would be 6"+3"+2D6" attackmove from the sidelines.
Big drawback is, the 2D6 must be 9"... But its the strat of choice for RG wyches.

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 19:40

@Zenotaph in your example, why in the first place did you place the Incubis in the Venom if the second the Venom touch the field you empty it? And you still need to be at a minimum of 9'' from enemies models, so there is no gain here at all............you should just put the incubis + Drazhar in reserve in the first place and at the start of turn 2 do the same thing that you pointed but without spending an additional CP (and you could even save 85pts because you don't need the Venom).

Note that Drazhar + 5 incubis in SR = 2CP because you exceed the 10 power level, but again...you still have no gain from using the strat....(BTW, a transport in regular SR......do you count the PL of the models in it?)

As stated above and as pointed by @Sekac , i totally understand it if you use it in tandem with the Swift Outflanking strats (thats the name of the stratagem @Sekac you we're referring), but other than that, i just don't see it's purpose....At least if you could disembark closer than 9'' that would be a thing.....but no! you have to be at 9''.

Lol i'm just a little pissed to see that ability being distributed randomly for other factions Wink Let's just call that jealousy lol Cool
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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 19:44

@zenotaph after re-reading your post, i see what you mean that if the enemy model is, lets say, 18'' from the border of the field, i would SR my venom at the limit of the 6'', so still 12'' from my enemy, disembark (so gain 3'') so now i'm only at 9'' from my enemy.......in this case that is a win indeed.....
But its a little bit pretty situational Wink
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf

Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 20:19

@Zenotaph wrote:
Example:
Venom with 5 Incubi is in strategic reserve, say because of the PT Stratagem.
Its turn 2. Venom comes from the sideline within 6" of the border.
With MD you can disembark and then charge. That would be 6"+3"+2D6" attackmove from the sidelines.
Big drawback is, the 2D6 must be 9"... But its the strat of choice for RG wyches.

When you compare that to the ork version doesn't MD look trash? Truck boys in on turn 2 12+3+5+maybe a d6 no minimum distance from enemies then assault. If md had given some bonus for to charge range it might of actually been good as it is ATM I don't rate it.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 4 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30 2021, 22:22

@Kalmah wrote:
damn............another army that have the one and only ability i truly want for us: transports that move and THEN can unload their troops

In other words, you'd like transports that actually fulfil the central purpose of transports? Razz

As opposed to 99% of transports in the game currently, which appear to exist as overly-elaborate bounce-pads to give a unit an extra 3" of movement for 1 turn.

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