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Squidmaster
The Strange Dark One
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fisheyes
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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 19 2022, 12:21

That makes sense- can't believe I forgot that crusher exists- but then they wouldn't be getting the leviathan transhuman; crusher stampede makes you lose subfaction rules

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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 29 2022, 12:23

Man, the new Chaosdaemon Dex sure packs a punch. I just read the Goonhammer article (klick here),
and boy, they got some really nice stuff. 6 WL-traits and Relics for each faction, to beginn with.
4 psychic disciplines and a real big bunch of strats. Armywide special rules round it out nicely.

I feel a bit envious, but I guess, thats just a normal first reaction...

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04 2022, 17:03

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8iAY9tvra8

Well, there it is. LoV Codex...

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 16 2022, 21:53

Yup, the newest releases continue to outdo eachother.

Luckily everyone has forgot we exist. Pressure builds are the name of the game, and my Grots are hungry Wink

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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 19 2022, 14:14

Dang!!! Votann are complete bonkers... Here!!! is the goonhammer review.
Hit-rolls of 6+/5+/4+ autowound, depending on tokens?
You dont get hit-/woundrerolls armywide against them, but they always get -1 damage.

Boys and girls!! It wont be fun to play against Squats... Suspect Suspect

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krayd
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 19 2022, 21:15

Yeah, the Judgment token mechanic for Leagues of Votann is incredibly broken. It will need some serious tweaking in order to get anywhere near resembling balanced.

Personally, I think that there needs to be a limit on how many judgment tokens can be placed per turn. Perhaps also a limit of 1 token per unit per turn. I think that having all of the auto-wounds from judgment tokens counting as 6s to wound is a bit much as well. I would rather the judgment token table look something like this:
1) 6's autowound 2) 5+ autowound 3) 5+ autowound and count as 6s to wound.

I also think that rules for void armor take it a step too far. -1AP + no hit or wound rerolls is a bit much. I would probably be fine with -1AP+no wound rerolls. After all, they are supposed to be relatively bulky and slow; hitting them shouldn't be a problem (wounding, on the other hand...)
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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 19 2022, 21:33

void armour is no wound or dmg rolls, but yeah it's still ridiculous

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 20 2022, 09:54

I have no idea what's going on with the last few codices but this power creep spirals out of control. Sometimes I wish for the simpler times of 8th edition Indices. A time without much bullshit where single rules didn't hard-counter large parts of any other codex.

From my point of few the Squats were a completely needless addition which have no gameplay identity and instead just get all the goodies instead.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 20 2022, 16:17

Granted, Squats *are* slow. and will probably have issues with getting to objectives. Their troops are 1 wound models with a standard armor save of 4+, so that mitigates the void armor somewhat. So, high volume shooting should be able to wipe out a lot of their stuff.

It's just that their damage output right now is *ridiculous*, especially since it is possible to them to bypass the wound roll step altogether. That giant rail cannon's wound bleedover effect is also a bit much.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 20 2022, 17:21

i will say it: as of late, 40k literally sucks!
the power creep is a real joke and this game is not even playable anymore, at least if you want to have....you know......fun? i'm not talking to win here, simply to have a good evening with friends and enjoy your time.

Each and every new codices only further the nail in the coffin of this game, and that sucks a lot that we have to be dependent of a bunch of incompetent fools who don't even know how to make a good game and that they literally only want to take our hard earned money.
I don't mind spending a lot of money for a simple hobby, but that hobby needs to be fun and enjoyable when there is a game linked to it.

Magic for instance, had a lot of problem in the past, but when they created the playtest team, it did not take long (like 2 edition) to get the game in a more balanced shell. And guess what? their sales are skyrocketing! A good game pushes the players to buy more stuff, so its a win win situation.

It's been a while since i purchased anything for 40k, instead me and my playgroup switched to AoS and i have to say this has been a really good decision. The game is not perfect, i know, but at least they are getting close to a more balanced game and we enjoy our battles.

Fingers crossed that 10th edition will be a complete revamp of the way GW sees their game (seriously, the 9th edition Core book is really good, they don't need to change that much, it's just the power creep in the new codices that break the game and makes it a complete garbage)

I think they should do a little bit as they did with Horus Heresy: 3 books containing every codices: 1 for everything Imperium, one book containing every Chaos codices and one book containing every Xenos armies. And all of them released AT THE SAME TIME!!!!

Sorry for being so pissed off at this game.........but it's a game that i love and it pains me to see where it is going.....

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 20 2022, 18:04

The core rules set has rarely been an issue. It has always been codex balance. 7th edition was one of my favorite core rules sets, but it was ruined by a wave of imbalanced codices/supplements.
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Wrack_Enthusiast
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2022, 00:06

Look on the bright side: Intense and constant power creep has often led people to go back and play older editions.
I vote for 5th edition as the new, mainstream edition. We had a damn good army book back then.
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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2022, 01:53

From what I heard, uh, well, actually read, Votann is banned from some tournaments, till the nerfhammer comes down...
Not sure, if this is official, though...

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Sarcron
Sybarite
Sarcron


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2022, 04:23

I'd hardly say the game is unfun, I still enjoy having a games night every week at my local store. Competitive tournaments may be unfun- I wouldn't know- but to say the game itself is unfun feels incredibly off.

I still play fun games, using and facing a variety of codices from older to newer ones. Votann seem very powerful, but I'll need to wait until they're actually on the board to say that they're unfun to play against.

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The Strange Dark One
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2022, 10:49

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-votann-break-all-the-rules-in-warhammer-40k/

This sums up the issues with the codex pretty well. LoV does not only have overpowered units, they break the fundamental principles of the game. From my point of view, this faction has no business being in the game at all.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 21 2022, 15:32

Sarcron wrote:
I'd hardly say the game is unfun, I still enjoy having a games night every week at my local store. Competitive tournaments may be unfun- I wouldn't know- but to say the game itself is unfun feels incredibly off.

I still play fun games, using and facing a variety of codices from older to newer ones. Votann seem very powerful, but I'll need to wait until they're actually on the board to say that they're unfun to play against.



My point of view is that the game right now is spliced in 3 level: the first codices that came out, the middle field and the new ones.
I agree that when playing, for instance, 2 armies from the 1st batch, the games can be fun, when playing 2 middle field armies, the game can be fun, but if you try to play a game between a 1st batch and a newer one, it's a complete waste of time.

Again, i'm not talking winning or losing, i'm just talking the fun factor here, and i'm sorry (that's my opinion) lately i have absolutely no fun playing this game. We dedicate an entire day of our week-end for a game that in the end, nobody is happy about the actual game, be it the winner or the loser (and more often, it'S the winner that did not have fun in our playgroup).

BTW i will never talk about the competitive scene since the main purpose of competitive is to win, not to have fun (if you play for fun at a competitive scene, i don't know what you'Re doing there in the first place, you can always try, but don't expect any results, but anyway, the fun factor is relative from one individual to the other, so i can'T argue about that)

anyway, enough ranting for me, as i said, recently we switched to AoS and the fun came back in our games, so i still have faith in GW that they can get 40k back on their feet, but right now, i think this game is in a poor state and they definitely need to start seriously playtest what they are releasing.
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Zenotaph
Hekatrix
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 24 2022, 09:38

Here!!! is some math for the Votann Rules.
Man, when you read it, you need a 'Bullshit'-Counter... lol! lol!

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Squidmaster
Klaivex
Squidmaster


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 24 2022, 10:43

Zenotaph wrote:
From what I heard, uh, well, actually read, Votann is banned from some tournaments, till the nerfhammer comes down...
Not sure, if this is official, though...

Reporting on the bans has been a little.....exaggerated.
Technically yes, "most" German large events have banned Votann. So have the Montreal Open, and a few others supposedly.

However, the source of the ban isn't explicitly "Votann broken".

These events, as some UK and US ones, started using a "No FAQ, no Codex" rule. If there's no FAQ for a book, it can't be used.
I used the same rule at this years Pompey Pillage, because of trouble we had last year with a few Codexes that hadn't been fixed yet.

No, no FAQ no COdex, which means Votann who don't have a previous Codex to fall back on can't be used until "fixed".
Whether or not anything remains in place if an FAQ doesn't fix them will be interesting. As the rule also serves to prevent reporting on how well the army does in events.
Which very unfortunately seems to be the only place GW get's it's feedback from these days.



That all said, chatter in the UK tournament organizer Facebook group is divided. Some plan to follow suit because of the perceived problems, others are against the idea either because "people bought a book" or because then there's simply no reporting. The term "send GW a message" has also come up amongst To chatter.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 25 2022, 14:22

Not sure why people are saying Voltan are "Slow". Sure, they have a 5" movement, and no Advance and Charge mechanic, but Marines have similar rules.

What Marines do not have is:
-Fast bikes with pregame moves
-Same turn teleports to instantly get a unit in position
-Amazing transports that are also insanely shooty and durable
-No reductions on Movement/Charge distances.

Plus army wide AoC and no Rerolls to Wound.

Once they hit the meta, we will need to pivot away from Grotesque heavy. No Rerolls from Torturers Craft will really hit their output, and their "durability" will not matter vs that level of damage output. Incubi will still work (+1 to would from Draz is still in effect), so maybe DT Wracks/Cronos will be the method of choice.

There should be a Quarterly Balance patch any day now. Hopefully this coming week. Maybe we will get Core returned to our pain engines (or more Nerf rollbacks, if we have pleased the Dark Muse). Ive got my evil elf fingers crossed Wink
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Squidmaster
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29 2022, 13:25

Whelp, Votann just got nerfed.
Their extra hits on 6s don't count as 6s themselves, and every single unit got a base price increase.
Do we think this will fix the issue?
I'm expecting a second errata in a month or two once more play feedback is in.

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Kalmah
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29 2022, 15:16

Squidmaster wrote:
Whelp, Votann just got nerfed.
Their extra hits on 6s don't count as 6s themselves, and every single unit got a base price increase.
Do we think this will fix the issue?
I'm expecting a second errata in a month or two once more play feedback is in.


This article seriously piss me off more than it should
this is literally a politician answer! (they seriously should consider presenting themselves at the next Britain elections)
This really demonstrate how they do not take seriously the playtesting of this game.
They playtested the codex but only against the most recently released Codex?
Come on, fire them all already and hire a team that day in and day out all they do is playtest what they are about to release but against every codices and every unit from every codex, that is how you do a serious playtest.

I know a girl who've been a playtester for Ubisoft here in Montreal, and she could spend entire days only hitting every wall in a game to see if a glitch will occur.......boring as hell but so necessary!

GW really need to raise the bar in their playtest for the future of this game cause right now this game is getting nowhere.

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krayd
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29 2022, 15:59

Squidmaster wrote:
Whelp, Votann just got nerfed.
Their extra hits on 6s don't count as 6s themselves, and every single unit got a base price increase.
Do we think this will fix the issue?
I'm expecting a second errata in a month or two once more play feedback is in.

It will make people at least a little more willing to play vs. them in a competitive setting. Then we will be able to get some hard data to inform further adjustments.

I still think that the auto-wounds need to top out at 5+, and that there needs to be some limitation on grudge tokens - either a limitation on how many can be placed on a unit per turn/round, or have them be removed after use, like markerlights.

Otherwise, we'll have to see how they play out. The do have some definite weaknesses. They are pretty slow, with no ability to advance and fire (and can only advance 3"), and, from what I gather, their secondaries are weak, so they may have trouble with objectives.
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 30 2022, 17:07

By the way, i just want to apologize to the community here for being so pissed with 40k as of late Wink
I reread myself and i know this can be unpleasant to read someone who only complains.

So again, sorry for my recent messages here! Smile
I still have faith in this game!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2022, 14:01

For me, the most surprising concerning thing about the LoV nerf was the admission that they only playtested them against Tyranids and Aeldari. What the actual fcuk?!

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 16 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03 2022, 15:33

Count Adhemar wrote:
For me, the most surprising concerning thing about the LoV nerf was the admission that they only playtested them against Tyranids and Aeldari. What the actual fcuk?!

"Admission"? Where can I find the source for this, I REALLY want to read this verbatum.
I should be outrated, but it just explains too much.
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