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 New Codizes and what we think about them

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Zenotaph
Marrath
Sarcron
Barking Agatha
Cerve
The Strange Dark One
Yziel
Some_Call_Me_Tim
krayd
Deckard_2049
toldavf
sweetbacon
Burnage
CptMetal
Luc1fer
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 18:33

Honestly, I have been thinking of dabling with the AotF, but never had the gall to jump in.

My current list has WAY too many bodies. Like 90 models on the tabletop. Going to a IRL tournament in October, need to get this down to a number that can reasonably get played in the 3 hour timeframe. AotF may be the way (Meta depending of course).

Would love to run a carpet of AotF Wracks and Grots. IDK about you Archons, but Coven is the largest section to my collection. Would love for them to be great.
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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon


Posts : 609
Join date : 2014-02-09

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 19:39

I’ve been running 3x 20 Wracks with four Ossefactors and EC on the Acothyst.  It can do a little bit of everything offensively, scores points really well and is very annoying to shift when parked beside a Haemie with Master Regenecist.  Talos Ichor Injectors are amazing and make them insanely good at chopping down TEQ and Dreadaughts, two unit types we can struggle with at times.

I have almost 30 Grots and I so want them to be good, but I just find them too expensive right now for what they do.  Still fun to play, only having a 6++/5+++ until turn four makes them a little too fragile for my liking given how much they cost. I wish they had combined the Flesh Gauntlet and Cleaver into one weapon profile that was Str6 AP-2 2dmg and wound rolls of 6 did mortals. I think their offense needed to be increased to make up for their loss of defensive abilities.
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf


Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 17 2021, 16:52

Some strats have been leaked for the new orks one of which caught my eye.

2cp breakin heads: a unit within 3 of a nob/warboss can pass a failed morale test then suffers d3 mortal wounds.

Why is this significant? well maybe it means orks won't be the fearless blobs they used to be meaning that inflicting casualties will cause more heavy damage on their units in the moral phase.

under current rules a unit of 30 orks would need to loose 10 orks to fail a leadership test on a role of 6 or 14 orks to fail on anything but a 1. On a fail in the later example you only on average loose 3-4 orks which his hardly worth 2 cp, even if you are below half strength you still only loose an average of 5 again not really worth 2 cp when you consider that you might roll the 3 mw and only be 2 orks better off for the cp cost.

This is why I think orks might be about to be hit in the morale phase.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 17 2021, 20:12

Folks!! Dust of the trophies and PGLs!!! lol!

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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


Posts : 1661
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 17 2021, 22:23

@toldavf wrote:
Some strats have been leaked for the new orks one of which caught my eye.

2cp breakin heads: a unit within 3 of a nob/warboss can pass a failed morale test then suffers d3 mortal wounds.

Why is this significant? well maybe it means orks won't be the fearless blobs they used to be meaning that inflicting casualties will cause more heavy damage on their units in the moral phase.

under current rules a unit of 30 orks would need to loose 10 orks to fail a leadership test on a role of 6 or 14 orks to fail on anything but a 1. On a fail in the later example you only on average loose 3-4 orks which his hardly worth 2 cp, even if you are below half strength you still only loose an average of 5 again not really worth 2 cp when you consider that you might roll the 3 mw and only be 2 orks better off for the cp cost.

This is why I think orks might be about to be hit in the morale phase.

I wouldn't bet on it, tbh.

I could be wrong but my suspicion is that this ability is meant for all the units that can't be or aren't taken in units of 20-30.

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@TeenageAngst wrote:
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf


Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 17 2021, 22:47

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@toldavf wrote:
Some strats have been leaked for the new orks one of which caught my eye.

2cp breakin heads: a unit within 3 of a nob/warboss can pass a failed morale test then suffers d3 mortal wounds.

Why is this significant? well maybe it means orks won't be the fearless blobs they used to be meaning that inflicting casualties will cause more heavy damage on their units in the moral phase.

under current rules a unit of 30 orks would need to loose 10 orks to fail a leadership test on a role of 6 or 14 orks to fail on anything but a 1. On a fail in the later example you only on average loose 3-4 orks which his hardly worth 2 cp, even if you are below half strength you still only loose an average of 5 again not really worth 2 cp when you consider that you might roll the 3 mw and only be 2 orks better off for the cp cost.

This is why I think orks might be about to be hit in the morale phase.


I could be wrong but my suspicion is that this ability is meant for all the units that can't be or aren't taken in units of 20-30.
Nah I can't see that. A 10 man unit at most looses 3 models on average so at most you save 18 points of tat for 2 cp, the economy is just way to wrong for that to be the case. Maybe for a multi wound unit but thats likely to be squig hogs, Nobs bikes, Death Koptas and kans the last of which probably wont have a nob or warboss in range.

It just seems so unlikely but of course this is all just my conjecture so lets see.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
Burnage


Posts : 1455
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 18 2021, 12:27

Based on leaks it does indeed look like Orks have lost the "permanently at LD30" rule and had it replaced with never being treated as under half strength. Definitely makes our anti-leadership tech more effective against them.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


Posts : 1661
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 00:10

@Burnage wrote:
Based on leaks it does indeed look like Orks have lost the "permanently at LD30" rule and had it replaced with never being treated as under half strength. Definitely makes our anti-leadership tech more effective against them.

Oh that's interesting.

If your opponent is playing Green Tide, I guess this opens up the possibility of trying to cause significant damage to multiple Ork mobs - since they can't use the 'd3 wounds instead of failing a morale test' Stratagem on all of them.

_________________
@TeenageAngst wrote:
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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf


Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 00:55

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
@Burnage wrote:
Based on leaks it does indeed look like Orks have lost the "permanently at LD30" rule and had it replaced with never being treated as under half strength. Definitely makes our anti-leadership tech more effective against them.

Oh that's interesting.

If your opponent is playing Green Tide, I guess this opens up the possibility of trying to cause significant damage to multiple Ork mobs - since they can't use the 'd3 wounds instead of failing a morale test' Stratagem on all of them.

Well under normal morale rules inflicting just 5 casualties will on average mean that you kill another 5 with morale. That really balances out the extra resilience they have been given.

Orks are actually going to melt fast if you can hurt them.
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sweetbacon
Wych
sweetbacon


Posts : 609
Join date : 2014-02-09

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 01:39

I haven’t seen anything in the leaked rules that would stop Chad Mech from killing 100 Boyz a turn without breaking a sweat.
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 14:25

Last weekend I played a really good DE player in a RTT final (he won 89-86). One of the tech pieces that really impressed me was a Dark Creed Raider with Grisly Trophies. Game came down to a brawl in the middle of the board, so he placed the Raider on Level 2 of a ruin near by and made SO MANY models run away.

If Orcs get their time in the sun, it may be worth looking at Dark Creed again. Hitting on 2s Turn 2 with your monsters isnt a bad secondary benefit.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
Join date : 2014-04-22
Location : Munich/Bavaria

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 16:16

New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 Img-2021

This is one beautiful Thousand Son. Thats the way miniatures should look...

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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


Posts : 599
Join date : 2020-08-21
Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 17:35

@Zenotaph wrote:
New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 Img-2021

This is one beautiful Thousand Son. Thats the way miniatures should look...


hehehehe can't wait to get my hand on one of those for my TS army Smile so pleased!
And they gonna do stuff à-la canticle and prayers.....hooo that makes me happy!!!
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
Join date : 2014-04-22
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 17:55

I am really not salty. Really!! But I just took a loooooong look at our current Archon. It was, well, a bit dissapointing.. Crying or Very sad

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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
Join date : 2016-02-18

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 18:37

@Zenotaph wrote:
I am really not salty. Really!! But I just took a loooooong look at our current Archon. It was, well, a bit dissapointing.. Crying or Very sad

Woh, we got a new model line recently. Only... 8?... years ago?

XD
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 19:23

Absolutely! But why does our HQ looks like a Voodoo puppet, ready to bury it with a hearty curse?
And the new Thousand Sons Miniature looks like it belongs in a Museum?
I just want a cool looking Archon! Is that really too much to ask for?

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toldavf
Hellion
toldavf


Posts : 77
Join date : 2021-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 20:13

@Zenotaph wrote:
Absolutely! But why does our HQ looks like a Voodoo puppet, ready to bury it with a hearty curse?
And the new Thousand Sons Miniature looks like it belongs in a Museum?
I just want a cool looking Archon! Is that really too much to ask for?

I kit bashed mine, she's made of an autarch back, archon sword, wych legs and head, kabalite arms and incubi back blades. She's not as smooth of silky as the official monoposes but shes mine.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


Posts : 998
Join date : 2014-04-22
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 20:39

I see your point. And I agree. But why do the others get awesome minis and we have to kitbash?
Hey! Actually, we kitbash really great! But why do we have to? Its not like we want that much.
Give us 2-3 great Minis, like Drazhar.Thats all, we want.

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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 20:56

Honestly, I don't mind that our Archon looks like absolute arse because I am more than happy to convert my own. I'm sure many people will think my conversions are just as ugly (if not more so) than the official Archon but, as toldavf rightly points out, at least they're mine.

The real issue, in my opinion, is that the Archon is barely shy of a monopose model and comes with zero options.

Hence, even if you convert your own, you're still stuck with a pitiful selection of wargear for them.

And the Haemonculus actually is a monopose model, one that also comes with zero alternative wargear but (unlike the Archon) also can't just swap arms with other DE models.

Hence, if you converted a Haemonculus you now have no options at all.


I am willing to put up with low-effort DE models (which all of our recent ones clearly are), if GW would at least go to the trouble of giving them a decent selection of wargear.

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sekac
Wych
sekac


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 22:15

@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Honestly, I don't mind that our Archon looks like absolute arse because I am more than happy to convert my own. I'm sure many people will think my conversions are just as ugly (if not more so) than the official Archon but, as toldavf rightly points out, at least they're mine.

The real issue, in my opinion, is that the Archon is barely shy of a monopose model and comes with zero options.

Hence, even if you convert your own, you're still stuck with a pitiful selection of wargear for them.

And the Haemonculus actually is a monopose model, one that also comes with zero alternative wargear but (unlike the Archon) also can't just swap arms with other DE models.

Hence, if you converted a Haemonculus you now have no options at all.


I am willing to put up with low-effort DE models (which all of our recent ones clearly are), if GW would at least go to the trouble of giving them a decent selection of wargear.

Hell, I have the old finecast haemonculus and I could get in trouble for having a non WYSIWYG model since they decided to take away all choices from them. I understand discontinuing wargear options for things that are not included in the box. Theyre trying to edge out bits re-sellers and 3D printers. It's lame, but I get it. But invalidating a stock GW model for no reason at all is crazy.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19 2021, 23:23

@sekac wrote:
@Soulless Samurai wrote:
Honestly, I don't mind that our Archon looks like absolute arse because I am more than happy to convert my own. I'm sure many people will think my conversions are just as ugly (if not more so) than the official Archon but, as toldavf rightly points out, at least they're mine.

The real issue, in my opinion, is that the Archon is barely shy of a monopose model and comes with zero options.

Hence, even if you convert your own, you're still stuck with a pitiful selection of wargear for them.

And the Haemonculus actually is a monopose model, one that also comes with zero alternative wargear but (unlike the Archon) also can't just swap arms with other DE models.

Hence, if you converted a Haemonculus you now have no options at all.


I am willing to put up with low-effort DE models (which all of our recent ones clearly are), if GW would at least go to the trouble of giving them a decent selection of wargear.

Hell, I have the old finecast haemonculus and I could get in trouble for having a non WYSIWYG model since they decided to take away all choices from them. I understand discontinuing wargear options for things that are not included in the box. Theyre trying to edge out bits re-sellers and 3D printers. It's lame, but I get it. But invalidating a stock GW model for no reason at all is crazy.

Whatever the intent, I don't think dicking over customers is good solution in the first place.

If they're that worried about the 3rd party bits market, maybe do what they used to do and offer their own bits service?

And if the reason they don't is because they think it's too niche and not cost-effective then why are they worrying about it in the first place?

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Deckard_2049
Slave
Deckard_2049


Posts : 17
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20 2021, 03:04

The current haemonculus is borderline more disappointing than the archon IMO. He looks more like a typical hunched gravedigger from fantasy. The adrian smith artwork depicted a more creepy looking one. What does suck though is that we don't really get any one off alternate sculpts either in limited form or in boxed games. They're keen to do alternate necron hqs and primaris lieutenants but god forbid they do a lady haemonculus. You'd think they might have slipped a unique mini into blackstone fortress, cause why not...but nope.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20 2021, 04:21

Well, I think, I will buy Asharah from Raging Heroes. She makes an awesome female Archon.
And maybe some Skinners as Wrack Conversions.

As a female Haemonculus you could maybe use Mistress Slithis. Also from Raging Heroes.

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The Strange Dark One
Wych
The Strange Dark One


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20 2021, 12:22

@Zenotaph wrote:
I am really not salty. Really!! But I just took a loooooong look at our current Archon. It was, well, a bit dissapointing.. Crying or Very sad

On the other side, we have a wide range of awesome conversion possibilities. Kitbashing goes a long way too. Just take a spare helmet from the Incubi kit, replace the Huskblade with a Spear (from the Raider kit) and you got a pretty menacing HQ.

Going back to the topic, I'm eager to finally get my hands on some Soulblight Gravelords HQs. I'm not a huge tabletop gamer myself, but we are top-tier in the modelling and painting aspect.

Fantasy is such a treasure for us. Recently I've started working about Khinerai-based Scourges.
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
Soulless Samurai


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20 2021, 12:23

@Deckard_2049 wrote:
The current haemonculus is borderline more disappointing than the archon IMO. He looks more like a typical hunched gravedigger from fantasy. The adrian smith artwork depicted a more creepy looking one.

I think you're right regarding the current Haemonculus model. There's something about the design that just doesn't give off the right vibes. Maybe he's too normal-looking?

Same reason I find this far less creepy than this.

The first one (either inspired by or the inspiration for the current model) just looks too human, and not even in an uncanny-valley way. Aside from the extra pair of arms, his upper body looks pretty normal, and the weird spine thing isn't clear or evocative enough to get across the horror of how (supposedly) warped and mutated they are.

In contrast, the second picture has limbs that look much more warped. They're clearly not human-proportioned to begin with and many transition into claws, blades or mechanisms, many in very unnatural angles. The mask, too, helps to give him a much more intimidating and inhuman façade.

Going back to the model, I think using the Talos mini-arms as inspiration would have been a good start. Also, he's crying out for both a mask and a less-awkward haircut. The current model just screams "I don't care if it looks stupid, dad, I can wear my hair any way I want!"

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