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 New Codizes and what we think about them

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Zenotaph
Marrath
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Cerve
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Kalmah
Wych
Kalmah


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Location : Montréal

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 24 2021, 19:44

well, usually my answer to this kind of interrogation is: well, its 40 000 years minimum in the future!......but it's sad to see that only the pistols did not receive any upgrade in 40 000 years.......
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 30 2021, 12:54

I got to play against the new Thousand Sons last weekend, and they sure do have a lot of new tricks and toys. Ended up a loss (60-95), but against the best player I know, so actually surprised I scored that high.

The new Scarab Terminators are pretty beefy. He had one big block that was able to teleport around (including out of CC), and a second unit that was resurrecting models like crazy. Both able to put out a lot of firepower (each able to down 1.5 raiders with the use of a few CP). Psykic power giving a unit a 4++. CP to give a unit Bodyguard and mess with our target priority.

Learned a lot about the new target priority. Trying to block smites using boats and blocks of Wracks was semi-successful (he had a lot of targeted smites, was easily able to kill a HQ each turn without difficulty, even with hiding behind models). Cult of Duplicity being able to teleport their units is always something to keep in the back of your mind.

The main thing I took away from the match is the amount of MWs that they can throw out. I was taking 10-20 MWs each turn, and the only real way of blocking them was to be sitting inside a transport or out of LOS.

Still really fun game, always a pleasure to play an even match where it isn’t “clubbing baby seals”

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 30 2021, 13:58

Thanks for the review of your game!
Everybody now knows that i play on two front and that i have an army of Thousand Sons, but still no chance to try it!

Cult of Duplicity is indeed insane! Especially on termis with the spell Temporal Surge where you can make a normal move during the psychic phase (Deep strike, temporal surge to get closer to the enemy, shoot, a little charge of like 3, fight and at the start of next psychic phase, teleport your unit with a psycher sitting close and repeat!).

Lot of stuff i want to try! i've already built like 6 lists lol
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


Posts : 2021
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 31 2021, 13:11

After thinking it over, I am thinking the positioning against the TS/GK will be putting the Wracks slightly ahead of the Raiders to act as a MW lighting-rod. Their 5+++ should absorb a lot, so when they finally die the Raider with our HQs survive (and cant get hit by the targeted smites).

Ive been saying this for a while, but Wracks are a powerhouse unit that we should be using more Wink
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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 31 2021, 14:07

Wracks are indeed real good unit, especially for troops
And they perfectly fulfill their role in our army, being the perfect meat shield in a lot of situation!

Ive been saying this for a while, but damn i love our Drukhari Codex!

i'm building lists for Thousand Sons and Drukhari alike, and gotta say that the Drukhari diversity is out of this world even if we don't have as many selection than the SM.
Especially when it comes to the plethora of Obsession we have access to.
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Cerve
Hekatrix
Cerve


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Location : Ferrara - Emiglia Romagna

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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 06 2021, 10:08

@fisheyes wrote:
After thinking it over, I am thinking the positioning against the TS/GK will be putting the Wracks slightly ahead of the Raiders to act as a MW lighting-rod. Their 5+++ should absorb a lot, so when they finally die the Raider with our HQs survive (and cant get hit by the targeted smites).

Ive been saying this for a while, but Wracks are a powerhouse unit that we should be using more Wink

I don't know if it was said already, there's a unit that cover that spot just better: the Court.

The infamous Sslyth/Urghul screening units just eat smites as Breakfast. Even just 4 of them as cheap shield unit is worth it.
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 07 2021, 14:00

True, I forgot about the Court getting even cheaper wounds with a 5+++.

TY for the reminder!

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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 01:09

Looks like finally GK and TS hit the higher spots in some tournaments.
Some pretty interesting lists have appeared. I like the one with 5 squads of rubrics. Fighting them is like chewing a shoeleather burger...

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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 12:35

Ive yet to face the GK, but I can confirm TS are pretty good.

Bodyguard from any Rubric marine unit really hurts our ability to assassinate their characters.

Terminators are pretty darn durable if there is enough CP, and resurecting multiple models each turn makes it difficult to chip them down.

Plus all those MWs getting thrown around.

I really think Court/Coven will be making more appearances in lists to try and soak up some of those MWs.
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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 14:10

This Saturday i will try my second game with my Thousand Sons Army Smile
My first one i totally forgot all my buffs so it did'nt went good, but still i learned a lot.
Rubric are indeed really sturdy, and the mentioned list above with 5x Rubric units is indeed the way to play them.
Multiple squads of 5 Rubric unlock more Psycher and more special weapon (the Soulreaper Canon is so good now). Also the strats -1D at 1CP on 5 models units is insane.
The only situation i would use squads of 10 Rubric is for flamers or in a detachment using the teleport spell (Cult of Duplicity).
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 16:15

I dont think, there is a right or wrong way to play. In that article alone are three total different lists hitting the top spots.

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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 16:44

I dont know how long TS will remain at the top tables.

Eventually people will start including a counter to the MW spam, just like they are currently teching into anti-Raider weapons now.

But certainly a different army that we will need to learn novel strategies to counter. Im quite happy to see someone else getting the spotlight for a bit Very Happy

@Kalmah , dont forget your Scarab Terminators Wink
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 17:43

A friend of mine said: All the Ork Flyer spam gives him a lot more to think of. Giving him a headache, was the term, I believe...

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 23 2021, 21:11

@fisheyes indeed our Termis are simply real beast!
This saturday in a game of 1000pts i intend on playing 2 squads of 5 Termis in a cult of time detachment (the reanimator spell) and one squad of 10 Rubric with flamers and my Warlord will be a Daemon Prince.

@Zenotaph i totally agree that there is more than one way to play our Rubrics.......and this is what makes a good Codex IMHO, but i have a slight preference for small squads of Rubric (more special weapons, more psycher and more cabal points) except on some situation.

yeah i've heard that the Orks are causing quite a ruckus in the meta right now........i did not face them though so i can't comment at all
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fisheyes
Klaivex
fisheyes


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 24 2021, 13:37

Forgot to mention that I got in half a game against Sisters last weekend. I played my genaric DE list, he played a Hero-hammer list with a few of the Bodyguard units and Vaul+Celestine.

Made the mistake of assuming I could bully him out of the mid field, and BOY did he make me pay. A bunch of combat units/characters promptly ran up and punched me right in the mouth, and I did not recover fast enough (darn those Bodyguard units hiding behind BLOS terrain preventing me from shooting the Characters standing out front in the open).

FYI against Sisters we got to play into them like were playing into a mirror match. Stay back and play defensively. Their units may be a little more expensive than ours, but they punch just as hard and dont need to pay the Raider "tax".

Plus those darn Bodyguards.

Going to take another crack at them this weekend, for sure going to be another bloody game Very Happy
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 24 2021, 16:25

Morvenn Vahl and Celestine in one Match? Thats a bit awkward, but maybe manageable.
I just dont know, what you mean with Bodyguard units.

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 24 2021, 16:31

Bodyguard = 3" Aura where a Character cannot be the target of a ranged attack while its within aura range of this unit.

So a squad of shield-girls stand behind a BLOS wall. They cannot be targetted with ranged weapons because they are out of line of sight.

Vahl stands in front of that wall, in full view of your army, while also within 3" of the shield-girl Bodyguard unit. You cannot shoot Vahl, but she can shoot at you. You need to run up and punch the shield girls to death before you can shoot Vahl (or you could punch Vahl).

Its a really "fun" interaction. We can do the same with our Archon/Sslyth, but our Archon doesnt have access to any real ranged weapons, so its kinda moot.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 24 2021, 16:50

Coldblooded Bodyguard special rule. Now I get it. And now I feel a bit awkward...

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 09:40

@fisheyes wrote:
Bodyguard = 3" Aura where a Character cannot be the target of a ranged attack while its within aura range of this unit.

So a squad of shield-girls stand behind a BLOS wall. They cannot be targetted with ranged weapons because they are out of line of sight.

Vahl stands in front of that wall, in full view of your army, while also within 3" of the shield-girl Bodyguard unit. You cannot shoot Vahl, but she can shoot at you. You need to run up and punch the shield girls to death before you can shoot Vahl (or you could punch Vahl).

Its a really "fun" interaction. We can do the same with our Archon/Sslyth, but our Archon doesnt have access to any real ranged weapons, so its kinda moot.

That's legit? Is that really possible?

That cannot be the intended rule...
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Soulless Samurai
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 10:42

Boy, I sure am glad 40k removed the Independent Character rules, thus completely fixing character interactions. Rolling Eyes


@CptMetal wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Bodyguard = 3" Aura where a Character cannot be the target of a ranged attack while its within aura range of this unit.

So a squad of shield-girls stand behind a BLOS wall. They cannot be targetted with ranged weapons because they are out of line of sight.

Vahl stands in front of that wall, in full view of your army, while also within 3" of the shield-girl Bodyguard unit. You cannot shoot Vahl, but she can shoot at you. You need to run up and punch the shield girls to death before you can shoot Vahl (or you could punch Vahl).

Its a really "fun" interaction. We can do the same with our Archon/Sslyth, but our Archon doesnt have access to any real ranged weapons, so its kinda moot.

That's legit? Is that really possible?

That cannot be the intended rule...

Unless it's been errata'd somewhere, it is indeed entirely legal. The only requirement of the Bodyguard rule is that the character be within 3" of the bodyguard unit. There's no stipulation that the Bodyguard has to also not be behind a wall or that it must be visible to a given enemy in order to block it from shooting.

Is it intentional? I have no idea. Possibly GW didn't want to add a LoS requirement in order to prevent 'Rhino Sniping' (i.e. people using their own stuff to block a mode's LoS to the bodyguards, allowing them to shoot the character normally) or maybe they just didn't consider this at all.

Tbh, I'm not sure why Bodyguards needed to make characters invulnerable to shooting in the first place. What was wrong with the old rules when they'd just intercept wounds for them? I ask because it seems like that would have solved this particular problem outright. Neutral

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 11:12

@CptMetal wrote:
@fisheyes wrote:
Bodyguard = 3" Aura where a Character cannot be the target of a ranged attack while its within aura range of this unit.

So a squad of shield-girls stand behind a BLOS wall. They cannot be targetted with ranged weapons because they are out of line of sight.

That's legit? Is that really possible?

That cannot be the intended rule...

Believe me! It is not only legit, it is almost usus. Actually, I did it myself from time to time. Wink
And its one of those situations, an ESE Player is cackling diabolical, when his Wracks have Hexrifles.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 11:56

@Zenotaph wrote:
And its one of those situations, an ESE Player is cackling diabolical, when his Wracks have Hexrifles.

Why? Question

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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 15:11

Dang! I switched the Look out! Sir! Rule with the Bodyguard rule. Again... I apologize...

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 22:37

@Zenotaph wrote:
Dang! I switched the Look out! Sir! Rule with the Bodyguard rule. Again... I apologize...

It's fine. It's one of those things that feels like it should work.

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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them - Page 8 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 26 2021, 23:14

But we Drukhari still have one way to do this. Question is: Would we sacrifice a 100pts Haemonculus
for the chance to shoot at Morvenn Vahl? After all, she still has her normal profile with all the works.
When the answer is yes, the toy of our choice is "the poisoners ampule".

Wait: Does the bodyguard rule count as an aura?

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