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 New Codizes and what we think about them

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Zenotaph
Marrath
Sarcron
Barking Agatha
Cerve
The Strange Dark One
Yziel
Some_Call_Me_Tim
krayd
Deckard_2049
toldavf
sweetbacon
Burnage
CptMetal
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 19:38

Well, since we got an AdMech Thread, this might be a bit redundant, but there are coming more and more of them.
I thought it a good idea to have one for all. After all, we are talking about AdMech in one thread, about Orks in another, and so on.
Soon there are coming Thousand Sons and Grey Knights. Both very nice armies, I admit. But I dont want to create a New topic,
every time a new Dex appears, or I feel the urge of discussing their strats, traits, or whatever comes to mind.

Well, not so long speech, but with some sense, I think... Wink

The last news were about Sisters of Battle, and what news that were. One strat in particular seems pretty hefty.

New Codizes and what we think about them V9r5bp12

I see Dominion Squads camping objektives with their stormbolters. And our Darklight weapons like a warm summer breeze...
Frightening... Exciting? Yes. But frightening...

Edit: I scaled down the pic a bit, after I found out, how. lol!

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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 15:01

This seems interesting. Maybe like the old salvo weapon...

New Codizes and what we think about them Img-2018

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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 19:21

Good idea.

The Sisters strat is pretty pricy, and needs to be set up during their turn (so you know not to shoot that unit). I imagine the main target would be those 20 girl squads with the 4 Storm Bolters doing MWs to you.

I havent got to play against their new codex much (only 1 game), and they were pretty balanced (outside of Vahl, who could go up 100 points and still be good). If GW can get all the codicies to match that power level, I will applaud them.

Orcs are sure looking interesting. Way too early to tell, but one could imagine a certain Youtube Archon doing a reveal on Saturday morning Wink
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Zenotaph
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Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 20:01

I opened that thread before the SoB Codex was released. So I had to guess how useful the strat would be. Wink

I played against them once and yes, they are well balanced, maybe too well. I dont really see them taking over.
But they are fun to play and to play against. Personally, I really like them. Vahl is really powerful, but has to be well played.
Whoever wants to use her as a simple Beatstick with a little buff capabilities is in for a surprise.

Here is another glimps of the new Orkz. Statwise it looks really good. Too bad, I dont know more details...

New Codizes and what we think about them Img-2019

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 20:42

@Zenotaph wrote:
I opened that thread before the SoB Codex was released. So I had to guess how useful the strat would be. Wink

I played against them once and yes, they are well balanced, maybe too well. I dont really see them taking over.
But they are fun to play and to play against. Personally, I really like them. Vahl is really powerful, but has to be well played.
Whoever wants to use her as a simple Beatstick with a little buff capabilities is in for a surprise.

Here is another glimps of the new Orkz. Statwise it looks really good. Too bad, I dont know more details...

New Codizes and what we think about them Img-2019

T5-6 orks are going to be a pain for most armies, not us ofc as we can and generally do field a boat load of poison.

It's definitely going to be another meta shift just one that wont impact DE as hard as say marines for instance.
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Zenotaph
Wych
Zenotaph


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 21:06

I so hope the Snotzogga will be a funweapon again, with results the whole table could laugh about.
The last one was a horrible disappointment. Embarassed


Edit: before I forget it, the new Castelan Crowe looks great. Thats one beautiful GK mini!!!

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Luc1fer
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 21:47

@Zenotaph wrote:
Well, since we got an AdMech Thread, this might be a bit redundant, but there are coming more and more of them.
I thought it a good idea to have one for all. After all, we are talking about AdMech in one thread, about Orks in another, and so on.
Soon there are coming Thousand Sons and Grey Knights. Both very nice armies, I admit. But I dont want to create a New topic,
every time a new Dex appears, or I feel the urge of discussing their strats, traits, or whatever comes to mind.

Well, not so long speech, but with some sense, I think... Wink

The last news were about Sisters of Battle, and what news that were. One strat in particular seems pretty hefty.

New Codizes and what we think about them V9r5bp12


I see Dominion Squads camping objektives with their stormbolters. And our Darklight weapons like a warm summer breeze...
Frightening... Exciting? Yes. But frightening...

Edit: I scaled down the pic a bit, after I found out, how. lol!


Tbh while drukhari are strong, kabals per se are meh at best due to kabalites not being that great, and meanwhile SoB (let’s not talk about skitarii, those are straight down ridiculous) have things like their extremely good troops and a 55pts cannoness that can instant kill guilliman in one turn.

With all this said we drukhari still have a privileged position and shouldn’t complain too muchñ
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Zenotaph
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 22:21

Actually, I think our Kabalites are pretty good.

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 23:02

Trueborns are simply amongst the best unit in our entire codex IMHO, but outside that i think its pretty situational if our KAbalites are good or not.
Against the future Orks, our kabalites with their poison will be MVP almost all the time, but against Vehicle heavy or low Thoughness armies, they shine far less.

I truly think that our codex still holds strong in face of all those aspirants even if we are not the top 1 anymore, even after a big nerf (and gotta say really necessary for the sanity of this game!!!).

Now i'm crossing my fingers that the future Thousand Sons codex will be as good as our Drukhari Codex (minus the glitches that were DT and Razorbus)
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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 23:14

About the soon-to-come Ork Codex, i really love what they are doing with the Dakka weapons. Don't know if there are any Ork's players amongst us, but the extra number of shots seems really good all while retaining their flavor.
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Burnage
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 14 2021, 23:52

@Zenotaph wrote:
Actually, I think our Kabalites are pretty good.

I wouldn't necessarily call them good - they're fine. Outside of Trueborn I think they kind of suffer from not really worth being run in units of 10, and as a unit of 5 their most sensible transport is a bit overcosted currently.

With that said they may have some play versus T5 Orks, as our Wyches are going to struggle versus them in most lists.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 13:11

Wracks could be good against orks.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 14:22

@Burnage wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily call them good - they're fine. Outside of Trueborn I think they kind of suffer from not really worth being run in units of 10, and as a unit of 5 their most sensible transport is a bit overcosted currently.

You could take 2x5 per Raider. But then you miss a Dark Lance. Personally, I take 10 Elf units with 2 special and 1 heavy weapon.

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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 16:32

@Zenotaph wrote:
@Burnage wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily call them good - they're fine. Outside of Trueborn I think they kind of suffer from not really worth being run in units of 10, and as a unit of 5 their most sensible transport is a bit overcosted currently.

You could take 2x5 per Raider. But then you miss a Dark Lance. Personally, I take 10 Elf units with 2 special and 1 heavy weapon.

The issue I have with this is that I feel like I'm paying 125pts for 1 Dark Lance that only hits on 4s if you move. Aside from that, the Blasters didn't benefit from the improvement to Dark Lance damage, and their poison shooting is as arse as ever (they have 2 attacks now, though, woooooo! Rolling Eyes ).

I think Trueborn are decent as they actually bring some reliable shooting to the table (BS2+ and being able to move and shoot their Dark Lance without penalty is a big improvement, even if their Splinter Rifles still amount to little more than a lightshow).

However, once I've taken the Trueborn unit (which already fulfils the minimum requirement for a Patrol or RSR), I struggle to find a good reason to take any squads of normal Kabalites. It just seems like Wyches offer far more bang for buck against the vast majority of targets.

Just as an example, a 5-man Warrior squad with a Blaster is 50pts, a 5-man Wych squad with Grave Lotus and a Blast Pistol is 55pts.

They have the same Blast profile but obviously the Warriors have much better range with theirs.

However, the Warriors put out 8 S1 AP0 D1 Poison 4+ shots, whilst the Wyches instead have 21 S4 AP-1 (AP-2 on 6s) attacks. Plus they can lock enemies in combat.

And this is without taking into account the subfaction bonus. If those Wyches were CB, for example, they'd instead have 21 S5 AP-1 D1 attacks (or 26 S4 attacks), almost certainly more than whatever the Warriors will gain from their Kabal. Not only that but from turn 3 onwards, the Wyches' attacks will be hitting on 2s. Meanwhile, the Warriors are stuck hitting on 3s. Even against high-toughness targets (where the Warriors should shine), the fact that the Wyches have better AP and vastly more attacks mean that they'll usually outperform the Warriors anyway.

I do get that there are advantages to being able to do damage at range, I've just yet to be convinced that those advantages are worth the massive trade-off in damage compared to Wyches.

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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 17:39

Wyches also have plasma grenades. A blast Pistol, 3 poison pistols and plasma grenades can be as good or better than kabalite shooting. Again, obviously much shorter range, but the damage potential for wyches in the shooting phase isn't far off, close combat notwithstanding.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 20:46

Well, looks like Snakebites have auto Transhuman Physiology...
Read it here!

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 20:59

@Zenotaph wrote:
Well, looks like Snakebites have auto Transhuman Physiology...
Read it here!

Again it does very little to us but auto cannons just went to being worse heavy bolters vs them. Guard just took a bad hit.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 21:28

I thought about Shredder Scourges. With S6 and Blast they would've been great Ork hunters.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 15 2021, 23:39

@Zenotaph wrote:
I thought about Shredder Scourges. With S6 and Blast they would've been great Ork hunters.

They still are. Just not so much against Snakebites.
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 04:07

With the new Orks going to T5, I think CB Wyches will be even better as our primary horde clearing tool.  Str5 AP -1 is the perfect profile to mulch large squads of Boyz.

As to question of Warriors vs Wyches, I’ve stopped including Warriors in my lists unless I’m going ALL in on them and taking 9 x 5 with Blasters or 6 x 10 with DL, Blaster, and PGL.  One or two squads, even if they’re Trueborn just don’t seem to do enough to justify their points cost.  I’ve found that big units of Wracks and fast Wych Cult units is really fun to play and also provides a good balance between playing the mission and killing stuff.
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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 13:14

My gut tells me that PoF style mini-transhuman wont be the primary build (unless it also affects their little Grot guys, which would be dumb).

Also expecting AdMech to get a nerf right around the Orc release, so Orcs can get their month in the sun (before the cycle starts again).

Still, this is more balanced than any other edition of the game, and we have had our time in the sun. I need to keep reminding myself this every time I start to feel salty XD
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Soulless Samurai
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 13:44

@fisheyes wrote:
and we have had our time in the sun. I need to keep reminding myself this every time I start to feel salty XD

I don't mind us not being the strongest army but I can't help but feel envious of what other armies have received in terms of options.

Comparison I made before and apparently forgot about.:
 

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Last edited by Soulless Samurai on Fri Jul 16 2021, 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 14:00

Deja vu...

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 15:47

Sure, we didnt get our Jetbike/Skyboard/Scourge-wing HQs, but we did get an update that made Cult units great (I dont think I ran them once since I started DE in 7th).

We did get a lot of good stuff, and its important to remember that. Master HQs, Cults that are worth taking, Boats that are survivable, Lances that actually kill tanks.

Just dont look at your Haemonculus (or Coven units in general) Razz
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PostSubject: Re: New Codizes and what we think about them   New Codizes and what we think about them I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 16 2021, 16:45

@fisheyes wrote:
Sure, we didnt get our Jetbike/Skyboard/Scourge-wing HQs, but we did get an update that made Cult units great (I dont think I ran them once since I started DE in 7th).

We did get a lot of good stuff, and its important to remember that. Master HQs, Cults that are worth taking, Boats that are survivable, Lances that actually kill tanks.

Just dont look at your Haemonculus (or Coven units in general) Razz

Only slight disagreement I would have is that I think AoF Wracks and Talos are good. Not stellar like Wyches and Incubi, but definitely good enough to help win games in a competitive setting.
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