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 T'au, again

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Barking Agatha
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Barking Agatha
Wych
Barking Agatha


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PostSubject: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 04:41

So I played a game today with my abusive, overpowered Drukhari army that absolutely must be nerfed with the utmost severity and urgency, against those poor, helpless, neglected pushovers, the T'au.

And I got absolutely slaughtered.

And so even now, when the Drukhari are at the top of the game, here I am again asking the same question I've been asking (in one form or another) since 6th edition, and 7th, and 8th: How do I fight this?

The T'au army that stomped me was:

3 x Riptides with Heavy Burst Cannons and Smart Missiles
2 x Commanders with 2 x Burst Cannons and 2 x Missile Pods each
2 x 10 Breeches in 2 x Devilfish (not really important)
Some fishmen characters
All the drones. All of them.

The Riptides are all but unkillable. They overheat every turn to get a 3++ save and any Dark Lance or Heat Lance wound they pass on to a nearby drone, of which they have lots. The hit may not even kill the drone, since it also has an invulnerable save.

On the first turn (before I even got a turn), I lost:

5 x Mandrakes
10 x Hellions
9 x Reavers
10 x Wyches, and...
... the Raider they were on

I managed to kill the Devilfish and one of the Breeches teams. I also killed 6 more Breeches and a few drones. Then on Turn 2:

I lost the Ravager, a Raider, and my Trueborn. I charged in with Wyches, Incubi, 5 Wracks, my Succubus, my Archon, and my Raider. I lost 6 Wyches and the Raider to Overwatch, even though the Raider was unwounded. My Scourges arrive, shoot uselessly, and die the next turn. I took 2 Riptides down to 4 wounds each (almost!).

Turn 3, the Riptides shoot the guys in combat with them, killing the Incubi and the venom and miraculously leaving 2 Wyches alive. The Wracks and Scourges get shot to pieces.

And well, it's all over, isn't it? What is left? One limping Raider with 2 wounds left in it with a full squad of kabalite warriors inside, one Succubus, one Archon, 2 Wyches, 5 Wracks, and one Haemonculus.

The Succubus finishes off one Riptide and runs for an objective, only to be shot down by one of the Commanders. The Archon gets shot by the other Riptide. The last 2 Wyches fall to a drone. The 5 Wracks are killed by the 3rd Riptide. The last Raider tries its best, but falls to missiles.

So by the end of the game I had one Haemonculus and 5 Kabalite Warriors left, and that was a miracle.

So how do you deal with something that:

a) Can easily kill you before you can shoot it.
b) Doesn't care if you DO get to shoot it.
c) Destroys whatever it shoots at, completely, and
d) Can't be charged by you without taking heavy losses?

Any useful advice will be gratefully appreciated. By useful, I mean please refrain from telling me again how hopeless you consider me to be, or that you've played against T'au lots of times and you win every time and that I ought to be able to do it too, or any of that cheery, 'Ha ha! So you lost a game!' stuff, and consider instead actually trying to help me?

Thanks!

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 15:08

Maybe mass talos with ichor injectors, gauntlets and splinter cannons? He obviously saw your 20 shot hellions as a threat so I would advise T5 for them if you haven't already same for the bikes. Splinter cannons seem to be the most efficient weapon vs this sort of list they only have -1ap but that's fine if he has 3++ anyway right? doubly so if he's just gonna give the wound to a drone.

I wonder how venom spam might work out.

After a quick look targeting drones for destruction seems to be key for making your firepower stick, Just how many are we walking here? 20? 30? units loaded with shredders might work.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 15:20

Possibly a stupid question, but is the Riptide a vehicle? If not, massed Shardfire with PT might work well.

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toldavf
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 16:02

Zenotaph wrote:
Possibly a stupid question, but is the Riptide a vehicle? If not, massed Shardfire with PT might work well.

They still appear to rock a 2+ save sadly could see it working from a venom though 8 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds 1-2 failed saves for 4 damage. Naturally you still need to remove the drones first.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 16:34

The reason Tau are considered garbage in Competitive is because they have a hard time moving ONTO obejctives. Their amount of shooting is still top notch. This is a common misconception.

If you have stuff out in the open against Tau, that stuff is D.E.A.D. Even if you are behind cover, a unit of Broadsides with their SMS (out of line of sight shooting) will pick up a unit No Problem. SMS on Riptides are not as good (cant stack buffs as much), but still quite decent.

Your main Tech against Tau would be your speed, CoS strats to ignore Overwatch, and Wych "no retreat" rules. DT Liquifiers are also very effective against their larger units (note: their suits are not Vehicles, so poison works fine).

Your game plan against Tau is to force them to come to you.

If you go first, you need to move up into a positon for a turn 2 charge onto points. Remain behind LOS blocking terrain, or -1 to hit terrain. Move 1 boat with 5 troops onto a point. Boat is dead, but hopefully they fall for the gambit and you are set for a Turn 2 charge (ignoring Overwatch, and tying them in combat with No Retreat).

If you go second, even better. They need to move something onto a point, so send the minimum unit possible to kill it (you need to deploy in a certain way for this to be possible). 5 Incubi should kill just about anything in their army, other than the Riptide. If they do not go for points, just sit back and wait for Turn 5 for the sweet 15 VPs.

Poison Tonge redeploy also really works great vs Tau.

Dont trust in your durability, trust in your speed and knives. Stay out of LOS as much as possible, keep CP to ignore Overwatch, position to counter-punch them everytime they get onto a point, and win from VPs. They should get no more than 5 VPs from Primary any given turn.

DONT GET BAITED INTO RUNNING AT THEM TURN 1/2!! They will just back up, and shoot you off the table. Plan out your secondaries, control the Points, keep your units alive thru the use of terrain+transports.

Thats my $0.02 anyway. Hope this helps.
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon May 31 2021, 20:36

fisheyes wrote:
Hope this helps.

Thanks! I think I understand a little better now, and that's just what I needed. T'au, again 1f600

While we're on the subject, anything I ought to know about Necrons?

Thanks again!

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Manticorus
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 03 2021, 23:09

fisheyes wrote:
The reason Tau are considered garbage in Competitive is because they have a hard time moving ONTO obejctives. Their amount of shooting is still top notch. This is a common misconception.

If you have stuff out in the open against Tau, that stuff is D.E.A.D. Even if you are behind cover, a unit of Broadsides with their SMS (out of line of sight shooting) will pick up a unit No Problem. SMS on Riptides are not as good (cant stack buffs as much), but still quite decent.

Your main Tech against Tau would be your speed, CoS strats to ignore Overwatch, and Wych "no retreat" rules. DT Liquifiers are also very effective against their larger units (note: their suits are not Vehicles, so poison works fine).

Your game plan against Tau is to force them to come to you.

If you go first, you need to move up into a positon for a turn 2 charge onto points. Remain behind LOS blocking terrain, or -1 to hit terrain. Move 1 boat with 5 troops onto a point. Boat is dead, but hopefully they fall for the gambit and you are set for a Turn 2 charge (ignoring Overwatch, and tying them in combat with No Retreat).

If you go second, even better. They need to move something onto a point, so send the minimum unit possible to kill it (you need to deploy in a certain way for this to be possible). 5 Incubi should kill just about anything in their army, other than the Riptide. If they do not go for points, just sit back and wait for Turn 5 for the sweet 15 VPs.

Poison Tonge redeploy also really works great vs Tau.

Dont trust in your durability, trust in your speed and knives. Stay out of LOS as much as possible, keep CP to ignore Overwatch, position to counter-punch them everytime they get onto a point, and win from VPs. They should get no more than 5 VPs from Primary any given turn.

DONT GET BAITED INTO RUNNING AT THEM TURN 1/2!! They will just back up, and shoot you off the table. Plan out your secondaries, control the Points, keep your units alive thru the use of terrain+transports.

Thats my $0.02 anyway. Hope this helps.

Hi, noob question, what does CoS stratagems mean? Cannot find anything about ignoring overwatch.
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HERO
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 03 2021, 23:11

Do you have a picture of the terrain + deployment? Against certain matchups, this means a lot more than the bat rep itself.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 04 2021, 00:02

Manticorus wrote:
Hi, noob question, what does CoS stratagems mean? Cannot find anything about ignoring overwatch.

That refers to the 'Book of Rust'. There are many toys for Cult of Stryfe. What is meant here,
is a Stratagem 'Flawless Approach'. You can find it here!

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: T'au, again   T'au, again I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 07 2021, 15:36

Necrons are in a strange place. They are a 9th edition codex, but the first 9th edition codex. So they are stronger than the 8th edition codicies, but a lot weaker than the rest of the 9th edition codex armies.

Their main strength are Scarabs (fast/durable for their cost, possibly ObSec), Warriors (short range shooting and medium durability and ObSec), and possibly C'Tan/Silent King.

Their main goal is for you to wander into their threat range (12-18") so they can shoot and punch you to death.

Against Necrons you need to ask a few questions before the game:
-Do you have a pre-game move?
-Do you have re-deploy/ teleport/deepstrike?
-Do you have double-ObSec?

For the game, you want to deploy aggressively (unless they have the pre-game move, then you deploy conservatively). You want screeners to zone out their teleport/Veil of Darkness. Stay 19" back from their warrior blocks (their Wraith/Scarabs are faster, keep an eye on them).

Try to set it up so that they move into the charge range of 10-20 choppy units sitting in boats (hiding behind terrain, close to an objective but not on the objective).

Play the long game, trying to control Primary Points while not giving up Secondaries. Force them to slowly march towards you, then hit them with a devistating counter punch when they are spread out and unable to counter-counter-punch.

Necrons are one of our better match ups, but their vehicles with a 4++ save give our lances trouble. We kill their infantry very efficiently, and they generally bring a lot of infantry
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