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 A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks

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Zenotaph
Jebei
sweetbacon
krayd
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toldavf
Hellion
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PostSubject: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeWed May 26 2021, 22:06

The mainstay of all coven armies, cheap and tough they are idea troops for screening and holding objectives. Lets take a look.

Wracks
At first glance it must be said that wracks have a very solid stat line, a basic wrack has 2 poisoned attacks, t4 and a 5+fnp they are decent melee fighters. The most interesting thing about this unit though is the unique weapons options you have access to. They have access to 2 ranged squad weapons the much hated liquifier (dt sillyness) and the ossefacator. Now the liquifier is an improved flamer with ap-2, its just really solid even without the DT buff. The ossefactor on the other hand I have mixed feeling about, it wounds on 2+ with great ap and 2 damage, it's just a shame it only has a single shot.

The Acothyst has access to allot of stuff, most of it is kinda duff. The electrocorosive whip gives him 6 str 5 poison attacks at -2ap which is solid, everything else is kinda junk in comparison. Ranged wise your only real options are another liquifier which is the just amazing (2 flamers in a 60 point squad) or the hexrifle a heavy weapon. Now at first glance heavy weapons for this squad might seem like a bad idea and in some situations you would be right. At strength 6, -2ap and damage 2 with snipers and mortal wounds on a 6+ they are really hard hitting, I only wish we could get a small unit armed solely with them, would of made a really nice heavy support choice for covens.

Wracks are good for their points, they are the ideal screening troops, do a good job of clearing enemy units with their flamers and are generally very points efficient.

Haemoxytes
An improved unit of wracks +1 invun save +1 leadership and ignore the first failed save each phase (they can technically tank a volcano cannon with that ability which is hilarious) at 10pts each they are wracks plus, and while they are still not winning any prizes in the melee department they are certainly really tanky. This unit works really well with a few chronos and obsessives collectors, they can be an absolute pain to wipe out for some armys.

Coven wise POF get allot out of wracks making allot of the support weapons that would usually be thrown at them need 4+ to wound that's a missive jump in survivability. Creed have more accurate wracks which is important when you consider how few attacks they have (comparative to wyches at least). Twelves +1ap on melee weapons makes them all ap-2 which is terrifying to tanks, monsters, MEQ, ect it's just really solid. Dark harvest is interesting, considering just how many small wrack units you can have it can be a very solid way to inflict mortal wounds. In short all the melee buffs are just solid bonuses to the units damage.

Next time Wyches.
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fisheyes
Klaivex
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 13:21

Ive been playing my list with 3x10 PoF Wracks with an ECW on the Acothyst for a few months now, and I am starting to think they may be my MVP.

85 points (with the ECW), mini-Transhuman, infantry, with decent poison attacks in CC. Even has the 1CP strat to re-roll all Wounds. Dont even need the Haemonculus tax to do their thing (Draz doing the same job but better, while also reducing the amount of Characters/Assasinate points we give up).

On Turn 3 they get Advance+Charge, hitting on 2s, wounding on 4s with a bit of AP. Great at tying up problem models that we have a hard time punching to death (like a demon Lord of Change).

Been trying to reduce my model count and swap out the 255 points to something else, and nothing I can come up with is better for the points at holding objectives.

Considered dropping 10 wracks for a Haemonculus in Coven of 12 for the character assassination janks, but honestly I dont think its better than the 3x10 (and we are already good at punching characters to death)

Anyone else loving their Wracks?

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Kalmah
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Kalmah


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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 14:47

i really love them too, did you try their Ossefactor and Hexrifle? are they worth the small point investment?

last game though they've been entirely wiped out by my AdMech opponent Sad
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 14:49

In my last game, I had a unit of 10 Coven of 12 wracks swarm an Admech Dunecrawler and kill it with the Metallotoxin strat. It would have been even nastier if combined with The Torturers Craft. I also use units of 5 for holding objectives and retrieving octarius data in my home quarters. Right now, my biggest issue with wracks is that I need more in order to build some lists that I'm planning, and there appears to be a shortage right now.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 14:51

Kalmah wrote:
i really love them too, did you try their Ossefactor and Hexrifle? are they worth the small point investment?

last game though they've been entirely wiped out by my AdMech opponent Sad

I'm thinking that Dark Technomancers might be a good choice for small units with hexrifles/ossafactors (yeah, the +1 to wound doesn't affect the ossafactor, but 3 damage is still nice). I've got a list planned that utilizes them, as well as DT raiders with dissies (which, IMO, is the only viable use for dissies at the moment).
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 15:59

I did play a game a while back where the opponent brought 3 squads of 10 DT wracks with the Hex Rifle+2 Ossifactors.

While it did control a lot of how I positioned my characters, ultimately they didnt actually kill anything. I do respect the power of the DT Ossifactors though.

IMHO there are better shooting units for that price, mainly Scourges. In my experience so far an 85pt unit under PoF does good work, for a number of reasons (transhuman, lack of Haemonculus tax, giving us a cheap "anvil" unit that our army lacks).

Taking the same list into the AdMech match was humbling. Those Skitarii easily wiped out a squad each turn. But honestly the skitarii are pretty broken, and nothing in our army can stand up to that firepower. At least it was only a 85 pt unit and not one of our 300-400 point boats
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 19:59

I’ve also found them to be my stealth MVPs.  I love parking 20 man units on objectives and forcing my opponent to deal with it or fall behind on the primary.  I kit out the big units with Ossefactors and ECW to give them some offensive punch.  Really impressed by them so far.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23 2021, 23:08

I have to admit, I mostly use my Wracks along with the Haemi and Incubi to get my Hands on Dark Creed Raiders,
But next time I play, I so want to try the Hexrifle with the Ossefactor. 2CP for the DC strat seems big, really, but might be worth it.
Ignore Look out, Sir!! can be a nice symbolic threat. And having Raiders that cut down enemy Ld is kinda my thing.

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 26 2021, 13:48

Before you spend the 2CP to attempt a character assassination, I would recomend running some numbers.

Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, assuming a 5++ inv, Damage 2 means that a squad of 10 Wracks will probably not kill a character. 2CP are pretty valuable, I think the "threat" of the sniping is more powerful than the actual sniping (of course this changes based on your unit size, and the durabilty of the opponent character).

I got to play Orks last weekend, and ran my usual 3x10 Wracks (PoF with an ECW on the Acothyst). The wracks did WORK. Poison with a bit of AP was perfect for the match up, and the mini-Transhuman made a lot of difference (along with sitting in Cover). Scored points and punched Bikers+Riders.

Not the MVP (that goes to the Shredder Scourges), but really strong in the match up
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Jebei
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 23 2022, 00:35

Can the Master of Pain Aura be "switched off" by some opponnents disallowing the +1T?
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 23 2022, 09:42

Jebei wrote:
Can the Master of Pain Aura be "switched off" by some opponnents disallowing the +1T?
By another Drukhari. Poisoners Ampule...

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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 23 2022, 12:45

Oh yes, many factions now have abilities to turn off Auras. IIRC, psykic powers are the most common right now.

But that doesnt impact Wracks that much. Generally speaking, the purpose of Wracks isnt to tank a million shots, the purpose is to take more shots than the enemy expects (especially on Turn 4+ once we get the 5++ going).

IMHO, Wracks remain our BEST unit. Hellions are the second.

I bought a 3D printer just to print more Wracks. Actually cheaper than buying them 5 at a time at $45 CAD, haha

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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 26 2022, 22:24

Wracks are the coolest.
I am only slightly biased.
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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 27 2022, 13:32

Has anybody ever tried custom kabals? Merciless Razorkin and Torturous Efficiency comes to my mind...

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Kalmah
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 27 2022, 15:55

@zenotaph i tried it and really liked it, especially the exploding 6. The AP was really welcome too.

note that this is purely from a beer and pretzel game point of view, don't know their efficiency in competitive format.
Also note that recently i'm moving away from Kabal to focus more on the Cult/Coven parts of our codex.
Also i don't know their efficiency now with the upgraded power armour.........rolling 6's only to see your AP disappear like dust in the wind is a little heartbreaking....
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 28 2022, 11:27

fisheyes wrote:
Ive been playing my list with 3x10 PoF Wracks with an ECW on the Acothyst for a few months now, and I am starting to think they may be my MVP.

85 points (with the ECW), mini-Transhuman, infantry, with decent poison attacks in CC. Even has the 1CP strat to re-roll all Wounds. Dont even need the Haemonculus tax to do their thing (Draz doing the same job but better, while also reducing the amount of Characters/Assasinate points we give up).

On Turn 3 they get Advance+Charge, hitting on 2s, wounding on 4s with a bit of AP. Great at tying up problem models that we have a hard time punching to death (like a demon Lord of Change).

Been trying to reduce my model count and swap out the 255 points to something else, and nothing I can come up with is better for the points at holding objectives.

Considered dropping 10 wracks for a Haemonculus in Coven of 12 for the character assassination janks, but honestly I dont think its better than the 3x10 (and we are already good at punching characters to death)

Anyone else loving their Wracks?

Did you tried against AoC armies? 10 men squads seems to whisper "melee potential", but at ap-1 right now means bouncing against any SM-ish army (think about Sisters too).
Besides, I find them clunky too from a Transport perspective: 5 man size Wracks feels the best companions for 5 Incubi, and the best models where to put those 1s on explosions (and oh boy, my Raiders are filled with TNT for sure....).

I like Coven of Twelves, but again when I think about it I think about Grotesques. So again, 5 men squads + Grots.
I was used to run 5 men with EW because of their native ap, but right now...they really seems just stupidly cheap Troops, amazing for capping/stealing objectives and nothing else.
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks    A returning players opinions on our units; Wracks  I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 28 2022, 22:24

Haha, that post was from a WHILE ago. Many meta shifts have occurred since 2021.

Just to preface this, I am coming from a Comp point of view. 95% of my matches are against the last 3-4 codicies to be released, generally on TTS where people do not need to actually buy/build/paint an army. In this format, I am currently at a sub-50% win rate. At IRL tournaments, I generally go 2-1 (a solid mid-table player, but nothing special).

From this perspecitive, Ive played around with most of the Covens, and the Wracks remain one of our greatest tools in our toolbox. You will notice that last week a "Drukhari" player managed to score pretty high, by taking 995 points of non-drukhari, but still classified as "DE". The other 1002 points were basically Coven. Because Coven remain strong at the "existing in a location" department.

Back to your question. I have not run Coven of 12 since the new AoC change, mainly because I dont think Coven are best used in combat. When I was running Coven of 12, it was mostly to shoot Liquifiers/Ossifactors while Raising Banners. Since the new change, we will likely be hitting on 2s, wounding on 4s, saving on 4s vs most MEQs. I havent done the math, but it likely isnt too efficient.

Im re-designing my Comp list now, with 3 large bricks of 20 AotF Wracks with the Ossifcators/Hexrifles. AotF will counter Harlies pretty well, while a block of 20 should block out their movement very efficiently. Into other matches this will be my TTL, allowing for blocks of 10 Hellions and Incubi to be included in the list. In the GW style maps, 20 Wracks are quite efficient at assuming the "you cant touch me" position, making it difficult for some armies to interact with you. If you cant kill the opponent, and cant tank their firepower/combat, playing defensive is the best option available.

It may not seem very "fair" to game the system by being un-interactive, but Banners/Herd/TTL is a very powerful tool to have available when we KNOW we cant go kill the opponent.

TL;DR: Wracks are probably out classed as a damage-dealing unit, but remain A Tier for playing the mission and existing in locations.

Bonus: IMHO, the best companions of 5 Incubi in a transport are 5 Wyches with Hypex (love that 13" movement for Raising Banners, RND, or just move-blocking vehicles), or a second squad of 5 Incubi with a Fight Last Archon nearby.

Good Luck fellow Archons. Keep your blades sharp, and your minds sharper >Smile

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